Scared

[morizo]

So where was your question, and where was the alleged insult?

• I am not often on this board, learned only a few days ago that Nicole had admitted having been an OSA spy. I had't seen the other threads.( a link would have been more helpful than calling me asshole)
• I know that quite some people at the time of her OSA activities had helped her, since she'd been asking for help, but in fact she was betraying them.

• So to me this was "new" news. I was shocked and angry about her report on Berlin Board.
• Right afterwards I read her thread here about being scared because not knowing whom to trust. Which left me somehow speachless - and angry. And made me question her behavior.

• She's a victim of Scientology, and hurt and damaged people. It would be strange if it was forbidden to state this.
• I think most of the people here know that Scientology is a criminal group. And most people here have for a certain period of time contributed more or less. I have in any case. But it's probably too long ago for me to understand and people are reacting differently.
• Anyhow my anger about an OSA activity and my questionning it are no reason to call me an asshole (see below) I didn't call Nicole an asshole, not while she was doing her OSA spy shit and not after I read that all her noise was just to spy out helpful people. I realise that her story is tragic and very sad.

• I will certainly get angry again if I find out about any new OSA activity. And I would turn all such material to the police, as I did with everything I had and knew. Even if it is little pieces of information - it'll help the police to get the cult nailed down.

• Nicole suggested that she's in touch with the german authorities and has spoken out there, which is the most important thing to me at this point. Because then all the trouble that was caused turned into a report against the cult and most hopefully the cult will be sentenced. It was creepy what she did, but she seems to be out and in good hands, no reason for me to discuss this any further.

Re: Scared

Originally Posted by TG1 Rough Translation:

Lurk moar, you asshole.

I adore my family and because of them would never go back.

You, on the other hand, don't know a fucking thing about me or anything I've been through.

Thanks for this translation. :wink2: ​

​

 

[Nicole]

@ morizo:

Do you really believe that a person that is leaving $cientology wants to speak about Cof$s crime and the "crime" that the person made while beeing a $cientologist, when you are talking in that way with this person as you did in this thread here. The most Ex $cientologist did anything wrong. If they wouldn't talk about it, nobody would know about the crimes of the Cult.

Without that I spoke out that I was OSA and what I made, nobody would know. That is the fact and I am not sure if I ever would do it again.

That is the reason why I thought you are an Asshole. I never spoke it out, now I did!

 

[morizo]

@ morizo:

Do you really believe that a person that is leaving $cientology wants to speak about Cof$s crime and the "crime" that the person made while beeing a $cientologist, when you are talking in that way with this person as you did in this thread here. The most Ex $cientologist did anything wrong. If they wouldn't talk about it, nobody would know about the crimes of the Cult.

Without that I spoke out that I was OSA and what I made, nobody would know. That is the fact and I am not sure if I ever would do it again.

That is the reason why I thought you are an Asshole. I never spoke it out, now I did!

Not true. You were caught following anons secretly after a raid and they confronted you. That is the fact.

I do not wish to know more details about any disgusting OSA activity. It's enough for me if they go to jail and can't harm people anymore. 'cause you know the people that are betrayed and reported to OSA are people too, not just the OSAspy. And they have children as well. And they have a life and a job and a story. And they protest against the cult without ever having been scientologists. What's OSA going to do to them now.

Call me an asshole, but this is much more interesting to me than you being scared who to trust now. So excuse that I stop reading this thread.

 

[Nicole]

Not true. You were caught following anons secretly after a raid and they confronted you. That is the fact.

You are a liar. No anon confront me. THAT IS THE FACT. Show me your Doxs, or the Anons that alleged confront me should post here in this thread. Ask "Rheinländer" or "Keine Anon von Nix" about this allected "fact". I didn't happen.

I do not wish to know more details about any disgusting OSA activity. It's enough for me if they go to jail and can't harm people anymore. 'cause you know the people that are betrayed and reported to OSA are people too, not just the OSAspy. And they have children as well. And they have a life and a job and a story. And they protest against the cult without ever having been scientologists. What's OSA going to do to them now.

I can't more do than talk about what I did in the public and apoligize. And fight against this evil organization.

 

[morizo]

You are a liar. No anon confront me. THAT IS THE FACT. Show me your Doxs, or the Anons that alleged confront me should post here in this thread. Ask "Rheinländer" or "Keine Anon von Nix" about this allected "fact". I didn't happen.

I can't more do than talk about what I did in the public and apoligize. And fight against this evil organization.

Rheini knows what I am talking about. As far as I know you are the liar, or you suffer from amnesia.

Long before you "came out" there were discussions about you being OSA. We thought you were behaving strange, but since there was a slight chance of you telling the truth and just being borderline or whatever, the people still continued to help you.

But even before automn 2010 the anons didn't want to protest with you anymore. They asked you urgently to stay away from the protests, and Rheinländer reported that he was flooded by your mails, remember? If not, here's the thread:

Rheinländer, the german wwp mod wrote this on Sept 8, 2010 to you (crosspost from wwp: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/d%C3%BCsseldorf-11-9.63226/#post-1278483)

Ich habe mehr von Dir kennen gelernt, als ich wollte, weil Du mich mit Mails zugemüllt hast. Dein Ge--- dass Du von Scilons verfolgt würdest, nimmt niemand ernst, sobald er Dich auch nur etwas kennen gelernt hat.
(...).
Mehr als genug Leute haben es Dir gesagt, geschrieben, geflötet, vorgetanzt, vorgesteppt, mit Pantomime gezeigt und mit Scherenschnitt vor Augen geführt: Verp--- Dich!

The Anons did not believe you and rather stopped protesting Scientology than having to protest with you.



More dox? Here you answer after having been told that you are "persona non grata". You write that you are not a spy.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/düsseldorf-11-9.63226/#post-1278487

 

[Nicole]

Rheini knows what I am talking about. As far as I know you are the liar, or you suffer from amnesia.

Long before you "came out" there were discussions about you being OSA. We thought you were behaving strange, but since there was a slight chance of you telling the truth and just being borderline or whatever, the people still continued to help you.

But even before automn 2010 the anons didn't want to protest with you anymore. They asked you urgently to stay away from the protests, and Rheinländer reported that he was flooded by your mails, remember? If not, here's the thread:

Rheinländer, the german wwp mod wrote this on Sept 8, 2010 to you (crosspost from wwp: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/düsseldorf-11-9.63226/#post-1278483)



The Anons did not believe you and rather stopped protesting Scientology than protesting with you.

And things didn't change afaik.

Yes, that is the fact, but they never confront me with my OSA spying. I know that were discussions about my person and I knew that they thought I could be OSA. They wasn't sure about it until I spoke about it. That is the true and the fact. But this is what I ever told after I said I was OSA. I never said anything different. ..and yes after Rheinländers post I continued with my OSA - Trolling, until November last year This is all no secret.

...and I am very sorry that the protests stop and that Cof$ "win" with my help. But without talking about it, you would still think, what or who I am.

 

[Nicole]

I should write here in another thread about everything, but at the moment I don't have the time to do it...

 

[morizo]

Yes, that is the fact, but they never confront me with my OSA spying. I know that were discussions about my person and I knew that they thought I could be OSA. They wasn't sure about it until I spoke about it. That is the true and the fact.

They were as sure as you can be without you having admitted. And they were fed up with your behaviour, your mail-stalking anyhow but you know it you read the postings and you were told by phone, by mail, personally...

True is that you were confronted with OSA spying in writing at wwp and in spoken words. And all this before you spoke out. You even mention you are banned in one of your latest posts, which you are not, but Dusseldorf won't protest with you anymore.

...and I am very sorry that the protests stop and that Cof$ "win" with my help. But without talking about it, you would still think, what or who I am.

No, actually Anons don't talk about you anymore since a long time and I honestly doubt that they think about you. Enough damage, enough time lost. After all this afaik most Anons weren't really interested in your story anymore. I just happen to be very late reading your OSA thing.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If you are really out - well done, good luck.

kudos and many thanks to the people who go on protesting although they know they have been betrayed.

 

[Rheinländer]

Yes, that is the fact, but they never confront me with my OSA spying. I know that were discussions about my person and I knew that they thought I could be OSA. They wasn't sure about it until I spoke about it. That is the true and the fact. But this is what I ever told after I said I was OSA. I never said anything different. ..and yes after Rheinländers post I continued with my OSA - Trolling, until November last year This is all no secret.

...and I am very sorry that the protests stop and that Cof$ "win" with my help. But without talking about it, you would still think, what or who I am.

First time I meet you, I am 60% - 70% sure that you are a Scilon.
After you followed the both Anons, we know that you are a spy. I talked with someone about it and he know it. After this I say it to the other Anons. I don't know anymore if someone confront you with that but I don't care about. I say sometimes that it wasn't importend. Maybe some Anons say to you that you play OSA, but if not, who cares.
I don't care about you. If you need help, find someone who can help. I think, no Anon will. If you wrote more, do what you wanna do, I dont care. End of message and I say nothing more about that.

 

[Nicole]

First time I meet you, I am 60% - 70% sure that you are a Scilon.
After you followed the both Anons, we know that you are a spy. I talked with someone about it and he know it. After this I say it to the other Anons. I don't know anymore if someone confront you with that but I don't care about. I say sometimes that it wasn't importend. Maybe some Anons say to you that you play OSA, but if not, who cares.
I don't care about you. If you need help, find someone who can help. I think, no Anon will. If you wrote more, do what you wanna do, I dont care. End of message and I say nothing more about that.

I find it sad, that you didn't want to talk with me about that what happen... But it is like it is.

In the beginning I really searched your help. You might think I lied with the Fair Game against me. I can only say, that it did happen. My husband was very lucky that I searched help by Anons and that I didn't search help in $cientology. I lied at you. I didn't said that I grew up in Cof$ and that I worked for OSA. I don't know, why I lied, may be it was because I felt ashamed or may be because I had learned not to talk abou it. As you came into my house (our first meeting) I wanted to tell you the truth about me. I was very nervous and you started to talk about OT III and Psychiatrist and I didn't talk with you about me. In that moment a wall fall down in front of my mind and I got angry. I was very confused. Your thoughts were right I was a $cientologist, but one with doubts and far away from the "Church".

I needed at this time an anchor. A person that holds me away from Cof$. I thought you could it be. But I had the feeling that you let me fall. You wrote me, so doesn't work Anon etc. So I searched for a new anchor and that was OSA. First they seemed to be a friend again. That what I missed and my anon hate got bigger and bigger... and my husband also started to get angry about some Anons because you let me fall.

You wrote I followed two Anons mmmhh... I don't know what you mean. May be this was really a missunderstanding... I met two Anons on my way to my car, but I didn't follow them it was pure coincidence. I never followed any person. I am sure you won't believe me.


I have found some anchors now. Some Ex-Scientologists, ESMB and MrNobody. But the most important anchor is my family, but that I had to learn.

The next time you met an OSA spy, please confront and give that person an anchor. I guess the most Anons are the wrong persons, choose some Ex - Scientologist. Markus or Wilfried Handl could be a decision. Don't let them alone. The Cult calls very load.

I don't apologize again. I did it sometimes in the past.

...and please start to protest in Düsseldorf again. Don't let me win.

 

[Moosejewels]

Wow,
I'm trying to follow and understand this thread as an outside observer.
Very interesting.
I, myself, am close to some old friends, in and out, who are / were G.O. /
OSA and I have trouble trusting that the ones that are out, are out out.
Hope that made sense

 

[smartone]

Wow,
I'm trying to follow and understand this thread as an outside observer.
Very interesting.
I, myself, am close to some old friends, in and out, who are / were G.O. /
OSA and I have trouble trusting that the ones that are out, are out out.
Hope that made sense

It is interesting. Makes sense to me.

 

[Ladybird]

Wow,
I'm trying to follow and understand this thread as an outside observer.
Very interesting.
I, myself, am close to some old friends, in and out, who are / were G.O. /
OSA and I have trouble trusting that the ones that are out, are out out.
Hope that made sense

Makes perfectly good sense to me! That has been my experience with lots of old friends. It can take a while to get "out out".

Extract from "Information Disease: Have Cults created a New Mental
Illness?" by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. Science Digest January 1982
pp86-92]


"A very effective thought control technique could also be worked out from
Scientology, which could be used to make individuals into willing slaves."
-L Ron Hubbard


[description of the authors' research into the long term effects of
involvement with various cults]


Two groups in particular showed signs of inflicting the most
severe physical, mental and emotional harm on their members: the Hare
Krishna and the Church of Scientology. Among all groups, Krishna and
Scientology tied with the Unification Church in reports of physical
deprivation. Their members reported getting the least sleep per night and
having the most deficient daily diet.
...
The rituals of the Church of Scientology bear little resemblance
to those of any other cult. With its extensive program of "training
regimens" and expensive "auditing" counseling, Scientology operates
successfully as both religion and mass-marketed therapy. According to
those who responded to our survey, however, Scientology's may be the most
debilitating set of rituals of any cult in America. Onetime Scientologists
who answered our questionnaire reported that it took them, on the average,
more than two years (26 months) before they felt fully rehabilitated- more
than *twice* the time of those from other major cults [Hare Krishna: 11.1
months, Divine Light Mission: 12.3 months].


Moreover, former Scientologists surpassed all others in reported
incidents of physical punishment while in the group (35 percent) and, upon
departure, they claimed the highest rates of sexual dysfunction (22
percent), violent outbursts (28 percent) [average is 14 percent],
hallucinations and delusions (28 percent) [average is also 14 percent] and
suicidal or self-destructive tendencies (44 percent) [average is 21%]. On
average, former Scientologists surveyed reported more than *twice* the
combined negative effects of all the other cult groups.


Ironically, although claiming the most severe long-term effects,
former Scientologists surveyed reported the *lowest* total of hours
per week spent in ritual and indoctrination. This apparent discrepancy
seems to support opinions we have expressed earlier that, in combination,
Scientology's training regimens and "auditing" counseling sessions
(conducted on an E-meter, a kind of crude lie detector) may have an
intensifying and compounding effect on the nervous system that goes beyond
that of simpler cult rituals. And that, *hour for hour, Scientology's
techniques may be more than twice as damaging as those of any other major
cult in America!* In our view, this could be a vital direction for further
research by scientists working in the field of neurophysiology.


"The overall impact? Devastating!" wrote one ex-member. "I still
tend to view the world in Scientological terms: 'Truth is only an
illusion.' 'People are robots.' 'People are basically insane and dangerous.'"
Another was even more bitter: "The only thing I got out of this scam was
deep suicidal depression coinciding with the fear of death within five
years after separation. We were told that ninety percent of all 'refund
cases' eventually commit suicide."

 

[morizo]

I don't apologize again. I did it sometimes in the past.

...and please start to protest in Düsseldorf again. Don't let me win.

Forget about Dusseldorf, they're bravehearts, won't let the cult win. Something OSA doesn't do for sure is help you make friends. Even if we don't trust you anymore you have many contacts here who do. Cherish them.

 

[Nicole]

Wow,
I'm trying to follow and understand this thread as an outside observer.
Very interesting.
I, myself, am close to some old friends, in and out, who are / were G.O. /
OSA and I have trouble trusting that the ones that are out, are out out.
Hope that made sense

It makes sense...

I was never out out, only out... and some "little" things made me started to go "back". The dead of my father first and than the very evil Fair Game. I can't explain it very good it is a very psychological thing.
It was like my Scientology family members (father, stepmother, brothers) all the years feed the $cientologist inside me and I thought very often like a Scientologist, but on the other side I knew how evil the cult is. As the "little" things happen, it was a feeling like falling deeper and deeper back into $cientology. I really needed an anchor. MrNobody was the first one and I guess he saw what happen with me.

Now I hope I am on my way out out. I do my best for it and I hope it works, because I am disconnected from my $cientology family members and I break contact to $cientologists I knew. So I can have a distance (for the moment).The first time of my life I have found people I can talk free about my $cientology past. This will help too.

 

[MrNobody]

<snip>
MrNobody was the first one and I guess he saw what happen with me.
<snip>

Ugh, don't single me out like that.

I just thought you might like to go and see a movie, so I invited you to come and see one.

I can't remember which one it was, but probably one of these two (click on picture to enlarge):

 

[Nicole]

Just saying it, because it still makes me angry.

They were as sure as you can be without you having admitted. And they were fed up with your behaviour, your mail-stalking anyhow but you know it you read the postings and you were told by phone, by mail, personally...

I made 3P and to do 3P I had to send mails. This is a kind how OSA works.

I called Rheinläder twice in the beginning, where I needed help and where I wasn't OSA. Than I spoke with one Anon, no more calls happen. Nobody confront me on the phone, Nobody told me I am an OSA spy on the phone, No one confront me personaly with the fact, that I am an OSA spy. It happen in this thread and one Anon asked me in a PM in which Org I am going and if I am an OT.

I was an OSA spy from June until November last year... Do you really thing I would let my mask so easily fall, if somebody tell me I am a "persona non grade". Do you really thing a spy would say... uupps they know who I am after that little posting there or after this little Mail.

In the beginning I wasn't an OSA spy... I started to post at WWP at 1. April, my first protest was in April, than in May. Not as OSA. Than I was OSA.

True is that you were confronted with OSA spying in writing at wwp and in spoken words.

At WWP, I wrote above... Spoken words never!!!

And all this before you spoke out. You even mention you are banned in one of your latest posts, which you are not, but Dusseldorf won't protest with you anymore.

I am not banned from WWP that is true, but I am banned from the protests... but you can also write, that Düsseldorf won't protest with me anymore. What is there the difference?

No, actually Anons don't talk about you anymore since a long time and I honestly doubt that they think about you. Enough damage, enough time lost. After all this afaik most Anons weren't really interested in your story anymore. I just happen to be very late reading your OSA thing.

I am lucky that it gets now silent around my person. But when you are treading Exs like this, who should give Anon information. Thanks the dog, not all Anons are like you or some other Anons. They listen to the things I and other Exs have to tell. It is a great Teamwork.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If you are really out - well done, good luck.



kudos and many thanks to the people who go on protesting although they know they have been betrayed.

Do you ever thought about other, what other have gone through. Why they are doing such things?

Fact is also, I never followed or stalked an Anon. I stopped at the right time. ..and I had no time to give lots information to Cof$.

... and fact is also. Without Cof$ my father would live and this evil cult destroyed my life and my childhood. Don't tell me how evil Cof$ is, what for crimes they are doing and that people get betrayed.

...and I like and support every Anon that doesn't follow Ex- Scientologists and who are working in a Team, only so we can win.

...and I am still sorry for the things I have done, this will never change, but I have to live with it!

 

[Ulduz]

It makes sense...

I was never out out, only out... and some "little" things made me started to go "back". The dead of my father first and than the very evil Fair Game. I can't explain it very good it is a very psychological thing.
It was like my Scientology family members (father, stepmother, brothers) all the years feed the $cientologist inside me and I thought very often like a Scientologist, but on the other side I knew how evil the cult is. As the "little" things happen, it was a feeling like falling deeper and deeper back into $cientology. I really needed an anchor. MrNobody was the first one and I guess he saw what happen with me.

Now I hope I am on my way out out. I do my best for it and I hope it works, because I am disconnected from my $cientology family members and I break contact to $cientologists I knew. So I can have a distance (for the moment).The first time of my life I have found people I can talk free about my $cientology past. This will help too.

I know a person who was in and out, in and out, and finally he broke away from Scientology, and now he is free. It took a lot of courage on his part. I believe you’re going through the same phase. I am sure that soon you’ll be free, too; sooner than you might think. Your post shows that you’re just a tiny step away from freedom.
My friend says that his liberation came after he read the book The Bare Face Messiah by Coridon (I’m not sure if I correctly reproduced the title, but I know that it contains the words “Bare Face” and “Messiah”). He also liked my explanation why the idea of the engram is completely false -- once this Dianetics notion is discarded, the whole Scientology foundation is gone. I might post my thoughts about the engram on this board, although I am not sure that the readers will find them interesting.
Anyway, welcome to the sunlight!

 

[TG1]

Nicole,

One never knows how "advice" will be received when it's tossed across the Internet. And my thoughts below might not be welcomed. But here it comes anyway with nothing but kindness attached to it ....

Some of the things I've learned along the way that most people learn simply by growing older are these:

1. It matters very little what anyone else thinks of us. What matters most is what we think of ourselves.

2. No one will EVER know (in fact, no one else COULD ever know) everything that went into the decisions we have made along the way. No one else has the information we have that led to those decisions. We simply make the best decisions we can at the time, based on all the information we have at that time.

3. Nobody has ever gotten out of this life without making mistakes. Anyone who pretends he or she is perfect is probably just an asshole trying to make you feel bad.

4. Some people will never like us. Some will never forgive us. Some will never love us. We need to accept this. And move on.

5. When we start loving ourselves enough, we can then stop worrying about whether someone else loves or approves of us "enough." They really do not matter. Sometimes this includes family members. Thinking otherwise is just a waste of our precious energy.

Nicole, I wish for you the very best going forward. You cannot go back. But you can go forward. And "forward" is where your life is.

TG1

 

[Nicole]

Nicole,

One never knows how "advice" will be received when it's tossed across the Internet. And my thoughts below might not be welcomed. But here it comes anyway with nothing but kindness attached to it ....

Some of the things I've learned along the way that most people learn simply by growing older are these:

1. It matters very little what anyone else thinks of us. What matters most is what we think of ourselves.

2. No one will EVER know (in fact, no one else COULD ever know) everything that went into the decisions we have made along the way. No one else has the information we have that led to those decisions. We simply make the best decisions we can at the time, based on all the information we have at that time.

3. Nobody has ever gotten out of this life without making mistakes. Anyone who pretends he or she is perfect is probably just an asshole trying to make you feel bad.

4. Some people will never like us. Some will never forgive us. Some will never love us. We need to accept this. And move on.

5. When we start loving ourselves enough, we can then stop worrying about whether someone else loves or approves of us "enough." They really do not matter. Sometimes this includes family members. Thinking otherwise is just a waste of our precious energy.

Nicole, I wish for you the very best going forward. You cannot go back. But you can go forward. And "forward" is where your life is.

TG1

Message arrived... Thanks! I only wanted to write the truth, before going forward.