What's new

Shit! That really killed my F/N!

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
And they're afraid of not doing what a Scientologist is supposed to do because they're is a constant threat to losing their eternity. Make one slip, get into ARC with an "SP" and one can lose their eligibility for the OT Levels. :omg:.

Nothing that can't be handled with a few more intensives of Sec Checks, my friend.

Been there, done that!
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
And they're afraid of not doing what a Scientologist is supposed to do because they're is a constant threat to losing their eternity. Make one slip, get into ARC with an "SP" and one can lose their eligibility for the OT Levels. :omg:.

Nothing that can't be handled with a few more intensives of Sec Checks, my friend.

Been there, done that!
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Things that kill an F/N:

THE TRUTH

Right there.......That is the story of scientology.

This is an interesting area to look into.

The GO/OSA's main attempt over the past 40 years has been to STOP "truth" and "facts" wherever these contradicted the often greatly exaggerated and false statements about and from Hubbard and Scientology. And, the Scientology PR machinery incessantly paints a flowery picture about Hubbard and Scientology that has very little to do with "facts" and "truth".

The F/N persists as long as OSA does its job well and members accept the PR.

Examples:

1. Remember that picture from some Scientology publication where the crowd at some Scn event was "photoshopped" with added heads and added bodies, to MAKE IT APPEAR THAT THE CROWD WAS LARGER THAN IT REALLY WAS? THAT is a perfect example of what exists ALL OF THE TIME in Scientology - exaggerations and lies designed to create a VIEW of things that is NOT true, but which somebody wants you to accept and believe a sbeing true. This is part and parcel of standard Scientology PR. It matters little whether it is "true" or not, it only matters if you AGREE with what the manipulators want you to agree with. "SRC" in action.

Interestingly, I heard that the person (people) who "screwed up" the altered images for the Scn event was/were RPFed. He or she was NOT RPFed for "lying and trying to deceive by altering images of the event", but because he or she "failed to do a perfect job of intentional deception".

2. Paulette Cooper wrote a book that was largely factual. I read it while still very much involved in Scn. It bothered me that the "my church" would take such severe measures to silence "truth".

This involves two sides of the Scientology game. Always push the desirable ideas (PR), understanding that it makes no difference whether these are "true" or not, and always CRUSH (OSA, ethics, justice, fasle data stripping, etc.) any statement or opinion that sheds any doubt upon the often deceptive PR statements.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
...Any Scientologist who finds his or herself in a conversation with a person who expresses anything critical about Hubbard or Scientology, immediately exits "honest communication mode" and enters into "handling mode". They are TRAINED to do that. Thought (as in "careful consideration") ceases, and deeply-ingrained Scientology habits take over.
:puke2:

I just watched a handful of videos of picketers being accosted by Scientologists. The "handlings" were very much crafted around the idea of ATTACK. As such, there's no thoughtful communication that takes place. Yelling various versions of "What are your crimes?" or "You are a criminal!".

These are trained behaviors. Wouldn't it be amazing if one of the scienos actually listened to what the picketer had to say.

It's very doubtful that an actual communication will ever happen. As soon as a hint of an attack of Scientology occurs, the scienos scurry away mentally because that's what the indoctrination has led them to.

They are habitually not thinking at this time. The source of enturbulation falls into the evil category: THEY ARE SUPPRESSIVE, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Sortof scary, now that I think of it.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I just watched a handful of videos of picketers being accosted by Scientologists. The "handlings" were very much crafted around the idea of ATTACK. As such, there's no thoughtful communication that takes place. Yelling various versions of "What are your crimes?" or "You are a criminal!".

These are trained behaviors. Wouldn't it be amazing if one of the scienos actually listened to what the picketer had to say.

It's very doubtful that an actual communication will ever happen. As soon as a hint of an attack of Scientology occurs, the scienos scurry away mentally because that's what the indoctrination has led them to.

They are habitually not thinking at this time. The source of enturbulation falls into the evil category: THEY ARE SUPPRESSIVE, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Sort of scary, now that I think of it.

Robots are robots . . . . :confused2:

They are not uncommon on the human stage. With Scientology though, the robotism has been taken to amazing new heights.

And, as usual, the Scientology Ronbots imagine that they are "totally acting freely", and not as the prepackaged little bundles of implanted beliefs and behaviors that they actually are.
 
Last edited:

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I just watched a handful of videos of picketers being accosted by Scientologists. The "handlings" were very much crafted around the idea of ATTACK. As such, there's no thoughtful communication that takes place. Yelling various versions of "What are your crimes?" or "You are a criminal!".

These are trained behaviors. Wouldn't it be amazing if one of the scienos actually listened to what the picketer had to say.

It's very doubtful that an actual communication will ever happen. As soon as a hint of an attack of Scientology occurs, the scienos scurry away mentally because that's what the indoctrination has led them to.

They are habitually not thinking at this time. The source of enturbulation falls into the evil category: THEY ARE SUPPRESSIVE, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Sortof scary, now that I think of it.

And to what are my crimes my response is " What did you people do to pull me in " ?
Or
" Tell me again how many of your top execs went to federal prison for..what was it" ?
Or
" Have you read with your own eyes what was in Ron's blood at the time of his death.. if you haven't you should "!
or
" Do you know why Shelly Miscavage hasn't been seen for what....3 years now" ?
or
" Where is Heber " ?

Anyway, pehaps what best sums up their mindset was best put by a dear friend who remains 100% pure scientologist and says " I will not listen to anything that is not uptone and will not listen to anything that is downtone ".

Translation? If I don't already agree with then it I do not want to hear it.

And my friends still in do not know why I still cry for them.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Anyway, pehaps what best sums up their mindset was best put by a dear friend who remains 100% pure scientologist and says " I will not listen to anything that is not uptone and will not listen to anything that is downtone ".

Translation? If I don't already agree with then it I do not want to hear it.

For me, I always understood "uptone" as meaning "bright, alert, open to anything, aware, with no bias or prejudice to cloud my views, granting beingness to all others, etc.". And, I came to THAT understanding from reading Hubbard's writings. But, I came to see that THAT is NOT how it was understood and applied by most Scientology church members.

I also don't think that Hubbard himself meant it to be understood in such a "pure and clean" way. Hubbard did NOT want his members to abandon all fixed ideas, not if that meant them abandoning HIS carefully installed fixed ideas. He wanted his members and supporters to HAVE BIAS & PREJUDICE about a great many things. But only in the way that Hubturd defined & set out these things.

In real life with Scientology adherents "uptone" and "downtone" mean exactly as you described, because the terms "uptone" and "downtone" are loaded with weird Scientology ideas. It exists as "I won't listen to anything that might upset my nifty, comfortable little world of personal delusions".

It is just like the notion of "greatest good". That isn't such a bad idea really, but it becomes a bad idea when every solution to the "greatest good" is heavily pre-loaded with "helping and contributing to Scientology getting an exaggerated amout of influence or weight every time the formula is solved".

As I understand these terms, "uptone" and "downtone", it makes sense. Of course, I happily define them my own way OUT of a strict Hubbard/Scn context. But to the Scio-indoctrinated meatheads, it means "I refuse to look at anything that acts as negative news to MY ARBITRARY PERSONAL BELIEFS, regardless HOW TRUE this news may be".

They don't care about "truth". They only care about maintaining their deluded state of well-being amidst a sea of arbitrary Scn concepts, ideas and beliefs. And yes, of course, many people other than Scientologists do this, but it is so much WORSE with Scientology because it pretends to "know truth", have a "concern for truth", and presents itself as the ONLY "road to truth". All the while Scientology and Scientologists act to very much contradict those claims.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
<small excerpt..>
Scientology indoctrination involves a carfeully-planned gradient of accepting various ideas. Courses, course checksheets, twinning, study tech, word clearing, no verbal data, practicals, drilling, no asking of ANY questions, only referring to the materials, qual correction, cramming, ethics, justice and more ALL act to get some participant to totally accept a large bundle of IDEAS. In truth, many of these ideas are NOT verifiable, and many do not actually align with honest observations of ACTUAL events and situations.

Great summary.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
That's not true!

What are your Crimes?
The problem is that there is no LRH Policy or Tech (including in any of the TR's) that give permission for the Scientologist to discuss these allegations with an SP.
No drills which prepare them to ask the SP's to present hard evidence supporting their allegations. And if they DO get into real communication with the SP then per the scriptures THEY just committed a High Crime and can themselves be Declared SP. (So much for that "Communication is the Universal Solvent" thing) :omg:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
THINGS THAT KILL A SCIENTOLOGIST'S F/N:

Being sent to the examiner to attest to the completion of your last auditing action when you didn't think you finished.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
...

I also don't think that Hubbard himself meant it to be understood in such a "pure and clean" way. Hubbard did NOT want his members to abandon all fixed ideas, not if that meant them abandoning HIS carefully installed fixed ideas. He wanted his members and supporters to HAVE BIAS & PREJUDICE about a great many things. But only in the way that Hubturd defined & set out these things.
...

They don't care about "truth". They only care about maintaining their deluded state of well-being amidst a sea of arbitrary Scn concepts, ideas and beliefs. And yes, of course, many people other than Scientologists do this, but it is so much WORSE with Scientology because it pretends to "know truth", have a "concern for truth", and presents itself as the ONLY "road to truth". All the while Scientology and Scientologists act to very much contradict those claims.

Good thinkin' GF. My take on it is that Hubbard didn't discover absolute truth and realizing this lack of insight he simply declared his observations as absolute truth. All the repetitive drilling of Scientology and hourly referral to
"works 100% of the time" coerced us to convert opinions into truth.

Much of what LRH said was either patently obvious or unproveable. If a concept seemed unlikely, you didn't have a forum to disprove it. It's a pure form of "my way or the highway."

For example, the confusion about F/N's or unreading correction lists caused many techies to wallow in arcane definitions throughout their careers. Some got it, some didn't. There was no place to simply say "I've cleared the words. I've been to cramming. It does not make sense and that is Hubbard's fault, not mine." Ethics was the next step and the choice was pretty simple, either you're in Doubt or you now understand F/N's or why your lists are unreading.

It's a habit of cognitive dissonance. Either you are doing conditions or you magically understand LRH's opinions (oops, I mean truths).

The ideal of discussing a topic in the hope of discovering how someone else thinks is typically an exercise in putting LRH's opinions to work. It's parroting, not thinking.

The attack mentality is born out of LRH's inability to defend his position with reason.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology is that system of ideas that gets you to falsely imagine that you base all conclusions and opinions on "facts" and "observations", but when actually you have instead accepted and adopted a large range of ideas that function as fixed ideas (just as Hubbard explains), and these fixed ideas disable any Scientology participant from learning anything new or different. Now, while it is true that this happens in many areas of life, especially religion, it happens somewhat "naturally" in most areas, whereas with Scientology Hubbard really "figured it all out", systematized it, and brought the techniques of implanting fixed ideas to a near "science".

The Scientologist "doesn't need to look", because he "knows it all already", based on Hubbard's many claims, statements and assertions. This cracked me up when I was involved in Scientology. I studied and learned about fixed ideas, and Hubbard was on the money with his discussion of fixed ideas. And, then I would notice that many Scientologists displayed the exact same phenomena Hubbard described with fixed ideas. It was disheartening to me at first, because I imagined that maybe the people and organization might actually align with the best of the ideas - but they didn't.

A key part of this is that a person with "fixed ideas" has the opinion that he or she "knows it all already", and therefore doesn't have "to look", "obtain evidence" or "confirm the validity of any contradictions to what he or she BELIEVES". That is all true. People with fixed ideas are incapable of learning, because they have no need to look for "new information", because "I already understand this fully". "Certainty" in Scientology is often a delusion of "knowingness". If one truly grasps the nature of ANY "certainty", one comes to notice that "certainties" are often just like "beliefs", "understandings", and "opinions". They often have NOTHING to do with actual events, situations and observable anythings. People can believe, be certain about, or understand ANY IDIOCY as "being true". Now, you can be certain of your OWN observations, at least to some degree. What I am talking about involves the realm of THINKINGNESS, where IDEAS and CONCEPTS come to replace observations and even an ability or willingness to observe.

But then I would look around, not thinking, but LOOKING, and notice that many Scientologists operated in exactly the SAME WAY. Hubbard surely did have an excellent grasp of the realm of "fixed ideas", and he arranged his subject and organization so that the participants would become engrained with HIS FIXED IDEAS.

Scientology indoctrination involves a carefully-planned gradient of accepting various ideas. Courses, course checksheets, twinning, study tech, word clearing, no verbal data, practicals, drilling, no asking of ANY questions, only referring to the materials, qual correction, cramming, ethics, justice and more ALL act to get some participant to totally accept a large bundle of IDEAS. In truth, many of these ideas are NOT verifiable, and many do not actually align with honest observations of ACTUAL events and situations.

But, once the participant ACCEPTS these ideas, then this person "sees through", "experiences through", and "judges all things" in accordance with the yardstick of his or her Scientology FIXED IDEAS. The subject of "core beliefs" has more than a little to do with this. Hubbard's indoctrination chnages and instills NEW "core beliefs". This involves thought control and belief manipulation at its best.

An amazing part of Hubbard's trickery is that he convinces Scn participants that at no point do they suffer from simple "belief", and that they actually "know" with "certainty". What they actually do is "believe with strong conviction that they know instead of believe". The are tricked into becoming happily deluded.

Like in the movie "Matrix" when Morpheus tells Neo, "don't think you can, know you can".

A Scientologist does not have to LOOK, to confirm anything, because Hubbard already told him or her exactly the way things REALLY ARE - so they don't need to look.

I always took the part of Scientology that stated, and I paraphrase, "Man's highest ability is to look, and know, based on your OWN perception and ability to spot is-nesses". I saw that far too much of the subject, and almost all of the practice and organization violated THAT maxim.

Excellent points. This will go in my intermediate course, the one that will be sold to those who buy the $39.95 TV offer "MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS" course, as a follow up offer ... which, of course, will only be sold to a "select few" ... for $1995.98 as a 4 day weekend special seminar. The TV offer intro course will not give details but only break it down to the simple ... "People are looking for certainty ... and there is BIG MONEY IN PROVIDING IT! Is that right or wrong??? The answer is ... it makes no difference, because, if you DON'T provide that certainty, somebody else will, and, your prospective cultee will give their money to someone else's organization. There are MILLIONS OF PEOPLE that are JUST LOOKING for that RIGHT CERTAINTY in their lives ... and, if you are the one to provide that certainty, they will HANDSOMELY REWARD YOU!!!!!!!!!!!"

Pete
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Excellent points. This will go in my intermediate course, the one that will be sold to those who buy the $39.95 TV offer "MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS" course, as a follow up offer ... which, of course, will only be sold to a "select few" ... for $1995.98 as a 4 day weekend special seminar. The TV offer intro course will not give details but only break it down to the simple ... "People are looking for certainty ... and there is BIG MONEY IN PROVIDING IT! Is that right or wrong??? The answer is ... it makes no difference, because, if you DON'T provide that certainty, somebody else will, and, your prospective cultee will give their money to someone else's organization. There are MILLIONS OF PEOPLE that are JUST LOOKING for that RIGHT CERTAINTY in their lives ... and, if you are the one to provide that certainty, they will HANDSOMELY REWARD YOU!!!!!!!!!!!" Pete

Hmmmm. Perhaps Emma should be charging for the certainty that ESMB provides.
LTG
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Tampa Bay Times Rundown on David Miscavige beating the Staff and other sordid crimes - killed my FN.

Jamie DeWolfe was a total buzz kill on L Ron Hubbard's BIOGRAPHY - "Ron the murdering criminal who threw his entire family under the bus"

Finding out there is no Bridge to Anything except BK and foreclosure and THAT killed my FN

There are about 5000 active Scientologist's worldwide including staff and Sea Org and that is about it. That was a bit disheartening after glowing during Miscavige's event where he claimed MILLIONS of people are coming into the Org's....

Spending $$$,$$$$$,$$,$$$,$$$$$,$$$$$$ on Scamonology and finding out there is no state of "CLEAR" - but there is such a thing as a cleared bank "account" - and THAT really fucked up my FN

The fact that the E-meter costs $25.00 to make after buying TWO for $3,800 each ...just sent my noodle fleeting! :omg: THen...to find out they have been "warehousing" for the past 10 years (during the time I purchased the old and outdated E-Meters for full price)
the latest and greatest E-Meter that will be released with GAT II and I will have to buy TWO MORE at a cost of $4,200 each in order to get onto the Oat Tea levels....sent the needle in a rock slam

'Going Clear' really was a buzz kill on my guru L Ron Hubbard :whistling:
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
Shit that kills a Scientologists FN;

Explaining that everything they ever learned about FN's is a lie.

And realizing you are never going to get to play the organ with Ron, hahahaha.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    87.3 KB · Views: 32
Top