Traumatic Interrogation Stories?

[Miss Ellie]

MissEllie, that is horrible.

The way you were belittled and shamed was like something out of a 1700s horror story. It made me think of Nathaniel Hawthorne's story, "The Scarlet Letter," where the Puritans (considered by England to be a cult, apparently for good reasons, judging from Hawthorne's true-to-life stories) forced Hester Prynne to go to prison for adultery, then afterwards wear a large scarlet "A" for the rest of her life to mark her as an adulteress. She never gave up the name of her lover, but the man was too much of a coward to stand up for her and give himself up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter

In some ways, what happened to you was much worse, because you didn't do anything wrong, you were just dating a guy and on top of that, you weren't even married!

So cool that you stood up to the mission holder's son and didn't let metered interrogations get the better of you. I wish every scn learned how to float their needles and could walk away from them and stick to their guns to stay with their relationships. You got hootzpah, woman!

I got off easy compared to others at this mission. The mission holder had a real problem with people having successful relationships. She tried and did break up marriages, relationships and more. Here son who was in and out as ethics officer had fun on power trips and he was going to fix everyone even though he need more fixing than most.

The both liked to "shame" people into submission. I know of some real "rough" handling, etc. on sex and other issues. We were a cult within a cult. Blackmail was used to their benefit - she use to joke about things from PC folders.

It was an interesting lesson in cult think for sure.

 

[EZ Linus]

How does a group get to where it is OK to sexually abuse children ?

Of all the things wrong with scientology - call it soul sucking, call it stealing ones life, call it bankrupting people, breaking up families with disconnection & all the rest of it - isn't allowing sexually molesting children the worst of all ?

How does a society get to where it is okay to sexually abuse children? But yes, I agree with you fully. The sexual abuses on kids tops it all.

It wasn't until I became the same ages of my own abusers that it even occurred to me that any of this stuff was weird in any way. Then, it took another couple decades before I had the clarity in hindsight to see how it fucked up my life. But it take having to leave Scientology, then, years of feel safe enough (not being quite so paranoid of psychiatry) to seek professional help, and then years of good therapy to work through the pain and stop blaming myself to even begin to recover. Finding a partner that was supportive of all this (I think) was sheer luck. Child sexual abuse is worse than anything I can think of. I mean, it's all a matter of context. Everyone has had their hard times. I know that. But between the raping and the brainwashing, I've been through too much -- at times it's just too much to fucking bear.

Sorry... I get upset while typing this stuff sometimes.

I just hope Leah addresses this aspect of the cult's abuses this summer.

 

[Gizmo]

It seems in more than a few orgs children were abused emotionally, physically, or sexually - sometimes all.

Doesn't that at least indicate something is deeply wrong at the core of this group ? And surely it attracts some - not all - people to it that enjoy that kind of behavior.

The Catholic Church found long after it had decided to coddle child molester priests that they were attracting child molesters because there was a place they could prey on children & be protected.

Has it come to where the same happened to the Co$ ? Child molesters have come know they have a safe haven where they'll be covered for ?

All it takes is a group that values their own image more than any individual. That is the Co$.

The stories that would make the Co$ less welcome than the plague are out there - and from the beginning to today.

Here's hoping as more stories of child sexual abuse in the Co$ are told there will be too many for law enforcement to ignore.

 

[phenomanon]

I got off easy compared to others at this mission. The mission holder had a real problem with people having successful relationships. She tried and did break up marriages, relationships and more. Here son who was in and out as ethics officer had fun on power trips and he was going to fix everyone even though he need more fixing than most.

The both liked to "shame" people into submission. I know of some real "rough" handling, etc. on sex and other issues. We were a cult within a cult. Blackmail was used to their benefit - she use to joke about things from PC folders.

It was an interesting lesson in cult think for sure.

Was the Mission Holder bitch Betty Filisky? And her psychotic son, Rick?

 

[Miss Ellie]

Why yes... How did you guess?

Rick tried to get a gay guy to go straight by having sex with a girl. The guy had a breakdown. Rick was confused it did not work.

:confused2:

 

[Gizmo]

Was the Mission Holder bitch Betty Filisky? And her psychotic son, Rick?

Yikes !

And to answer another statement. Yes. There was a time when it was sincerely ( and insanely ) believed that a woman could make a gay man straight - he just didn't know what he was missing ( Same for lesbians ).

It was a view I heard expressed in the cult long after most of the US had abandoned that nonsense.

It took almost forever for me to realize if I wasn't what ron had 'thought' what he thought I should be . . then I needed fixed. So did everybody else need fixed !

All the time it was ron trying to solve his own case that he had projected on to everyone else !

No wonder it was endless auditing a new things' after new things. Nothing worked. It couldn't - he was insane. And scientologists bore the brunt of his insanity.

The closer to him, the more intense one got hit with the insanity !


What a mess. the little man came along & made it ever worse . . . more cruelty.


. . . . . . anybody else why ron had a thing about homosexuality & then along come the little man FIXATED on homosexuality ( that's putting it nice! ) ?

Hmmmmmmm. why ?

 

[JustSheila]

Why yes... How did you guess?

Rick tried to get a gay guy go straight by having sex with a girl. The guy had a breakdown. Rick was confused it did not work.

:confused2:

I knew Rick Filisky. He was an odd one.

If this were on a Sitcom it would be funny as a joke that could never really happen, but since this wasn't a sitcom and people like Rick actually seriously did this shit, it's insane as heck and I feel sorry for the poor guy Rick tried to force straight.

 

[lotus]

Yikes !


All the time it was ron trying to solve his own case that he had projected on to everyone else !

Yes! My tough too! By finding all people guilty of the same perversion he had..woudl certainly make it way more normal and ..as the poor man..was the victim of his case and Psych implants...but, unfortunately, ony a few rare human exceptions could be found to be as pervert as he was..Thus, he eventually designed ''pseudo confessionals'' so people would be mentally coerced into the belief they would have done the same sins he did....

No wonder it was endless auditing a new things' after new things. Nothing worked. It couldn't - he was insane. And scientologists bore the brunt of his insanity.

The closer to him, the more intense one got hit with the insanity !


What a mess. the little man came along & made it ever worse . . . more cruelty.

. . . . . . anybody else why ron had a thing about homosexuality & then along come the little man FIXATED on homosexuality ( that's putting it nice! ) ?

Hmmmmmmm. why ?

My thought (only impressions since, fortunately I had never been involved in LRH sexual life...thanks god)

1) I always though chances are , (if his relationship with Snake Thompsnon was as closed as he described it) that Snake Twompson sbeaked in LRH 13 yo shorts pants...to teach him hypnosis...

2) he was an adpet of black magic , has been close to Jack Parson and called Aleister Crowley - the creepy (his very good friend) It is know those guys were conducting black magic sessions which involved sex things (hopefuly they left kids alone..not sure though) ..So to be nice, I'd say El Ron may have dipped dick into dark places
IF that happened he might have been troubled with it for the rest of his life.

Sarah Northrup testified in court he was a sadistist and cruel

It is now known for a fact (historical records) that among the most strong homosexualty detractors we can find some of the most guilty (hiding in the closet) struggling homosexuals . Is obsession is definitely hiding something about the subject.

 

[EZ Linus]

It was rumored that Quentin was gay and it was why he went AWOL (or told to?) I thought I heard the story like this: he was found with a plastic tube going from his mouth to the exhaust pipe of his car, but others have said it was just made to look that way and that his dad really had him killed. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone know Q personally? He was so young. It is so awful no matter what the truth is.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

It was rumored that Quentin was gay and it was why he went AWOL (or told to?) I thought I heard the story like this: he was found with a plastic tube going from his mouth to the exhaust pipe of his car, but others have said it was just made to look that way and that his dad really had him killed. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone know Q personally? He was so young. It is so awful no matter what the truth is.

Lots available just search with your browser Quentin Hubbard

example: http://www.exscn.net/content/view/139/100/index.html

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

The information in this thread is truly shocking. It really points up the danger of scientology as a well developed cult seeded by the narcissistic and megalomaniac personality( a truly lost soul) motive to smash his name into history.

I suppose a separate thread could be created regarding the dangerous memes and practices of scientology and its organizations.

My hugs go out to all the victims of trauma mentioned. Go Leah. There needs to be even more public awareness and certainly public outcry and activism to end this bullshit.
And some reparations from the scientology 'purse' instead of purchased monuments to a vile sociopathic team of EL Con and McSavage.

This traumatic interrogation crap brings to mind Guantanamo Bay detention camp. Yet is is on US soil and many other nations around the world. WTF, is scientology really at war with humanity? It appears so by its actions.

Delusions and illusions of the most vile kind, some of the products of scientology. &*$%

What a dammed betrayal in so so many ways.

PS. Maybe Clearwater should be renamed. Scientology Guantanamo USA.

 

[Miss Ellie]

An OLD old timer that was a friend of mine use to drive LRH when he was in DC giving lecturers and all. She spoke of the wild parties, drinking and yes... drugs.

Wild times by all including the old man. She use to laugh about him and tell stories that were a little odd.

I got the idea that is was like a "get out of engram free card" if you partied to much you got audited and it was all gone.

She also stated that MSH did not go for this type of activity and frowned on it severely. Who knew...

I think Quinton was just wanting to be free... free gay or straight he just wanted to live a life without being a puppet on a string. He did not have much luck with that from what I have read. The kids that did the best were the ones LRH abandoned. He did them the biggest favor.

None of his MSH kids are/were very able or successful. None took over the helm so to speak... I find it odd that DM got cozier with LRH than his own kids. And MSH did not see like a very involved mother hen tending her chicks.

I will take the parents I was born too and count my lucky stars. While not perfect it worked more or less.

 

[Lord Xenu]

Thanks EZ Linus for this;

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Still,the child abuse in the cult is almost limitless. It's not only sex,it's physical and mental, emotional and I don't think it's reversiblefor most. IMO. Fucking with formidable years are incredibly damaging.Neglecting kids like that is just insane. They don't get to see orbond with their parents -- or any adults. They are labored too hardand UNLOVED, unseen, and deprived of just about everything a childneeds. To have sex with them and turn them into adult objects,brainwash them, and then blame them (make them take responsibilityfor "being there") ...it's all one big nightmare.[/FONT]



It wasn't until I became the same ages of my own abusers that it even occurred to me that any of this stuff was weird in any way. Then, it took another couple decades before I had the clarity in hindsight to see how it fucked up my life. But it take having to leave Scientology, then, years of feel safe enough (not being quite so paranoid of psychiatry) to seek professional help, and then years of good therapy to work through the pain and stop blaming myself to even begin to recover. Finding a partner that was supportive of all this (I think) was sheer luck. Child sexual abuse is worse than anything I can think of. I mean, it's all a matter of context. Everyone has had their hard times. I know that. But between the raping and the brainwashing, I've been through too much -- at times it's just too much to fucking bear.

Sorry... I get upset while typing this stuff sometimes


Thanks for this EZ, this has similarities with my situation. It has taken many years for me to be able to talk about it and that is only to family outsiders. Only one person in my family knows. I had an incident with a certain respected scifag which was sexually abusive. Without going into the details I was a terrified immature 13 year old [boy] whilst a relative terrorised me. No touching was involved but I was so traumatised I could not deal with it and basically acted like it never happened. It was too much for me to consider.
However this particular well respected person proceeded to discredit me and try to destroy my reputation before I became able to fight back. And yes like you, it took many years before I could even start to deal with it, and when I did start to talk about my time in and around scientology he knew that I would get back to that incident at some point. He then used all the devices he could to put the pressure on. Only someone who has been targeted by OSA will know what I have had to deal with and how long it took me to realise that all these weird things that were happening in my life were all connected.

 

[Gizmo]

It was rumored that Quentin was gay and it was why he went AWOL (or told to?) I thought I heard the story like this: he was found with a plastic tube going from his mouth to the exhaust pipe of his car, but others have said it was just made to look that way and that his dad really had him killed. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone know Q personally? He was so young. It is so awful no matter what the truth is.

There are some very reliable people who knew Quentin IRL & say he was not homosexual. There is much - as someone else noted - information on this board about Quentin growing up & also his so called suicide.

There are people I respect who say he was murdered. From what I can find out - and believe - it looks like it was made to look like suicide, didn't kill him, so he was finished off while in a coma in the hospital.

Others say it was suicide. Anyway, lots of info to browse through & form you own opinion.

Didn't ask, but, I've often suspected from his behavior that old bat shit was a closet queen BUT I have NO evidence to back my opinion. It is in his own writing that somewhere around 11 -or 13 ?- " he was taught to masturbate".

Oh, somewhere the is the allegation that lrh molested Dianne & gave it up as a W/H in a session audited by Mary Sue.

lrh sure put a new level to being in a dysfunctional family !

 

[EZ Linus]

Lord Xenu,

I feel for you so much, and thank you for stepping forward. I am glad that what I had to say gave you the gumption to speak too. There are many survivors, and too many victims; sometimes I don't know which I fit into myself.

Being abused by someone with status is especially difficult. Here is where I truly feel how you might be frustrated and feel defeated. We have suffered a kind of double injustice because of all the gas lighting -- the way these perpetrators finesse their importance or celebrity both in and out of the cult. Then there's the difficulty in stepping forward. It's extremely hard, especially after first leaving because of all the paranoia. I just wrote a book -- it took me nearly seven years of painstaking effort -- and for many years before I got around to typing that first word after the fear of OSA subsided, I wouldn't dare write it for one reason and one reason only. I didn't think I would be believed. First of all, so many years have passed, the people that harmed me and/or were involved were "important," and I didn't want to make myself a target.

But look at what Leah has done, and Paul Haggis before her. Then, Going Clear. People are paving the way. Leah and Rinder have been helping me a great deal in what they've been doing. They are giving me hope. A lot of people who I thought were still in, I am finding out have left, thanks to this site. All of this is healing actually. I hope you can find healing in this too.

 

[EZ Linus]

There are some very reliable people who knew Quentin IRL & say he was not homosexual. There is much - as someone else noted - information on this board about Quentin growing up & also his so called suicide.

There are people I respect who say he was murdered. From what I can find out - and believe - it looks like it was made to look like suicide, didn't kill him, so he was finished off while in a coma in the hospital.

Others say it was suicide. Anyway, lots of info to browse through & form you own opinion.

Didn't ask, but, I've often suspected from his behavior that old bat shit was a closet queen BUT I have NO evidence to back my opinion. It is in his own writing that somewhere around 11 -or 13 ?- " he was taught to masturbate".

Oh, somewhere the is the allegation that lrh molested Dianne & gave it up as a W/H in a session audited by Mary Sue.

lrh sure put a new level to being in a dysfunctional family !

I will read through all the Q stuff and see what I can find. Two people I know that knew him, one who was very close to him, believes he was murdered. I don't think it matters if he was gay or not, but, externally, his dad had a real problem with gay people, so if Q had any inclination, I could see that being a big flap. Maybe all that "1.1" judgement of being gay on Hubbard's part was because he himself was closeted -- I have no idea. However, Hubbard being taught masturbation at 11 years old sounds like he was sexually abused and wouldn't have anything to do with his sexuality/partner preference. It just adds more complexity to his mental disturbance and almost (almost) makes me feel bad for him.

And I would expect his family to be pretty dysfunctional to have raised a sociopath.

 

[Daisy_]

Daisy said it was the ASHO MAA. Pheno had thought it was an auditor. MAAs are not required to be auditors. I was a fully trained Dir I&R at AOLA and also did the OEC course, that's how I know.

There is probably no difference in impact. Child abuse is child abuse, but metered interrogations like that conducted by an MAA is extra weird because scn policy itself prohibits it. So it sounds like this MAA was a full blown, child abusing psycho even beyond scientology crazy.

The policy on the only metered interrogation MAAs can do is very old, around 1968, I believe. It's called a "Trouble Area Questionnaire." There is no discussion of what comes up, there is no taking things to F/N. The reads are marked on the questions and it is sent to the C/S and it's normally only done when the C/S requests it, like for OT Eligibility. So the MAA doing some off the wall metered sec check of her own in the MAA office with sexual questions to a minor was absolutely psycho.

It's seriously perverted to then ask a minor or even an adult to clay demo, "masturbation." Did the MAA have clay in his office and wait, or was Daisy sent to the courseroom to do it? Who checked her out?

Seriously weird stuff. Scientology is really weird, but just when you think you've heard everything, you hear something so wild you go ! I'm not questioning Daisy at all. It's too bad she didn't report it at the time, because an MAA that's such a crazy, disturbed pervert to go making up questions like that and doing them in a metered interrogation and with a twisted, perverted clay demo assignment besides on a MINOR is the kind of thing that would have had that MAA Comm Eved. And at ASHO of all places, where people could hear what goes on in the MAA office from the hallway! It's just shocking.

The Child Care Org had its share of perverts, for sure. The first time I heard about that, I was really shocked. So no offense intended, but the story is extra shocking to me because MAAs aren't allowed to do that and never were - at least since 1968 or so. The ASHO MAAs I knew in the 80s were really nice and I never knew of anyone having that sort of experience with them back then, so maybe it was later or earlier? Or maybe one of them was a real closet pervert and nobody had any idea?

For some reason, COS allowed MAAs and others to be present during what they called, "Gang Bang Sec Checks" and that is absolutely hideous. In those, a trained auditor does the metering and others are in the room yelling and stuff. Apparently those went on some time after 1986. I have no firsthand knowledge of them because I was gone by then.

I wonder if Daisy can still report what happened to the police.

I didn't know any of that! While I dgaf about "standard tech", the blatant disregard for/perversion of it does make these stories even more nuanced.

To contextualize my narrative, this took place in 2004 and the MAA conducting the interview was a 16 year-old girl. I'm sure she was just following orders. Having been in the Sea Org, I don't really blame any individual person for my experiences in Scientology. The entire environment is manipulated to turn people into monsters. I remember studying the Milgram Experiment in high school and thinking holy shit, this is literally Scientology.

 

[Enthetan]

For some reason, COS allowed MAAs and others to be present during what they called, "Gang Bang Sec Checks" and that is absolutely hideous. In those, a trained auditor does the metering and others are in the room yelling and stuff. Apparently those went on some time after 1986

It started a bit earlier. From another thread:

Yes, that's the point where it really got ugly for a lot of people. Before that point, the ugliness was mainly seen by (and inflicted upon) a relatively small number of people: the people on the Ship, those in the inner levels, whoever had personally pissed off LRH, etc.

At the time of the Mission Holders Conference and David Mayo's departure, the scene got increasingly ugly for public and regular org staff. They got increasingly paranoid about "disaffection", and desperate to nip it in the bud. This was around the period of 1982-83. The Int Finance Police was in full swing. You had Sea Org members making raids of private businesses owned by Scientologists.

I heard about one in particular from somebody who was working there at the time. North Star Novelties, in New York City, was owned by three partners, Robert Planakis, BJ Davis, and Larry MacDonald. I forget the details, but a bunch of Sea Org people from the FOLO showed up and did a gang-bang sec-check of the staff. The SO people were upset that not enough revenue was going to the Org from the business and its employees.

Then there was the whole Don Larson/"Int Finance Police" incident, as RogerB detailed in his thread on the subject.

A lot of people said "this is nuts" and left about that time.

And from another thread in 2010:

the gang bang sec checks were revived by the Fin Police in 1982, they are based on a HUbbard reference and were in use before that by the GO. Miscavige most certainly did NOT start the "reign of terror" that was Hubbard all by his little lonesome.

I know of their use from just before the Finance Police started using them, around 1981 or 82. I don't recall the exact date, but I'm very sure it was a year at least before we started hearing about the Finance Police. There was a Scientology-owned company in New York, North Star Novelties. One of the partners had agreed to have the company buy an IAS patronship in order to get himself out of some Ethics difficulty. His two partners balked. Shortly thereafter, a bunch of people from FOLO EUS showed up at their place of business and proceeded to gang-bang sec check the bunch of them.

There was a lot of this sort of stuff: "Gang bang sec check", "severe reality adjustment", etc, which started coming in as DM was gaining power and imposing his "style" in the early 1980's

 

[Gizmo]

How does a society get to where it is okay to sexually abuse children? But yes, I agree with you fully. The sexual abuses on kids tops it all.

It wasn't until I became the same ages of my own abusers that it even occurred to me that any of this stuff was weird in any way. Then, it took another couple decades before I had the clarity in hindsight to see how it fucked up my life. But it take having to leave Scientology, then, years of feel safe enough (not being quite so paranoid of psychiatry) to seek professional help, and then years of good therapy to work through the pain and stop blaming myself to even begin to recover. Finding a partner that was supportive of all this (I think) was sheer luck. Child sexual abuse is worse than anything I can think of. I mean, it's all a matter of context. Everyone has had their hard times. I know that. But between the raping and the brainwashing, I've been through too much -- at times it's just too much to fucking bear.

Sorry... I get upset while typing this stuff sometimes.

I just hope Leah addresses this aspect of the cult's abuses this summer.

One of the differences is that as a whole society at large ( at least in the US ) does not approve of or tolerate sexual abuse of children.

in the cult of scientology OSA will step in to ensure that sexual abuse of children - in each and every instance - is kept away from the police ( as required by law ) and kept hushed beyond the people directly involved.

Oh, directly involved ? Most likely the parents of the child ( in the cult ) that got sexually abused are never told it happened. When the child some years later may tell the parents - or the parents find out from another source.

Society at large ? School ? Scouts ? Camp ? Sports ? The police are informed.

At least most people outside the cult at least TRY to do right by the children when they know of the sexual abuse while the cult does it's best to have silence.

 

[EZ Linus]

"At least most people outside the cult at least TRY to do right by the children when they know of the sexual abuse while the cult does it's best to have silence."

YES! Very true. (Bold is mine.) Thanks for that reminder.