What Mike Rinder said about Bob Minton

[BunnySkull]

Your statement begs the question, if they, M & M, are truly enemies of the DM and want him overthrown as the head of the church, why do they not make the statements to law enforcement that we know with certainty they can make and implicate DM totally in jury tampering, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, perjury, slander, false imprisonment, money laundering, inurement and a host of other offenses? They could take him down in short order with plea deals to protect themselves.

Perhaps the Spin and Marty show is really a clever covert op launched by the church to co-opt the Ex's. From day one Rathbun never had any intention of getting cozy with us at ESMB or posting here - he came, found it bad, dropped a bombshell and left. He's been getting posters onto his board ever since.

Okay I can have some fun with this avenue of possibilities. Here goes:

I wouldn't for a minute discount M&M being involved in some bizarre covert op, it is in their blood afterall.

I just can't say if DM would be involved with it, or other powers that be surrounding the cult would provide support to M&M because they fear a full frontal assault against DM and are waging a guerrilla war instead. We know DM is the main power of the cult, but I still believe there are other players with leverage behind the scenes.

Knowing the past history and ethical behavior of M&M, both options are in the realm of possibility. I think the cult has always believed in the "keep your friends close and enemies closer" approach to certain matters. There could never be a better honey trap for dissidents in the cult than the current M&M show.

Now, my guess for why they don't make real meaningful statements to law enforcement to implicate DM and really take him down pronto (and that's excluding the covert op possibility for the moment, which would make the reason obvious.) Maybe because that could damage the "official church" err I mean the vast money machine that is the cult. I get the feeling after reading all the M&M postings that they want to protect the organization itself to some degree, because they would like to reap its large fringe benefits eventually. If they take down the official CoS (along with DM) that means tax-free status is gone and that much bad press and internal drama and dissent would cause a virtual exodus of all the donors and donations almost entirely drying up. The entire organization would be in shambles. I think they much rather have some cushy thrones and that constant money flow remain in good order.

Besides as good little RonBots they want much of that large organization and structure to remain as in tact as possible in order to "really" clear the planet and spread/protect Hubbard's universe saving tech - once they wrestle control away from that evil SP DM. I don't care what they say about "not wanting to run the CoS" - the only complaints they ever make are related directly (at least in their minds) to DM. If I knew nothing about the subject besides what they write I would think if you just removed DM everything would would be perfect and wonderful in the CoS. The only thing bad in the CoS is due to DM and his SPness, period.

Marty has also expressed some really wacko shit about govt. and pharmaceutical conspiracies against the cult. (I think that's how he rationalizes a lot of LRH's lies and misdeeds, how else could he?) I think he honestly still believes he is a loyal officer, in the galactic space opera, fighting against the evil SPs and Psychs trying to destroy the most valuable tech in the universe.

Really, I just don't put anything past the M&M show or pretend I know one way or the other what hijinx they are up to in this round. What I do know for sure is they can't be trusted. If they can ever break the mental shackles of the RonBot mindset and stop believing they are loyal officers protecting the universe freeing technology, maybe then I could (if not trust them) at least take them seriously. (Again, not holding my breath.)

 

[The Great Zorg]

Marty has also expressed some really wacko shit about govt. and pharmaceutical conspiracies against the cult. (I think that's how he rationalizes a lot of LRH's lies and misdeeds, how else could he?) I think he honestly still believes he is a loyal officer, in the galactic space opera, fighting against the evil SPs and Psychs trying to destroy the most valuable tech in the universe.

Really, I just don't put anything past the M&M show or pretend I know one way or the other what hijinx they are up to in this round. What I do know for sure is they can't be trusted. If they can ever break the mental shackles of the RonBot mindset and stop believing they are loyal officers protecting the universe freeing technology, maybe then I could (if not trust them) at least take them seriously. (Again, not holding my breath.)

From Psychology Today:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

...or subject to uncontrollable indoctrinated behaviour?

Scientology is viral and it is nuts.

Scientologists are viral and they are nuts.

The people of the world needs to innoculate ourselves from these viral nut jobs, one cult at a time.

 

[Terril park]

I have said - since the day that rathbun posted on ESMB, that he is a sleaze and no "ally" for any critic. Despite Terril's love affair with the idea and he and Ax's total weak-kneed wow moment because M&M deigned to speak with them.. they are still a pair of losers.

Well you deigned to speak with me, share beer, and buy me the best Pizza I ever ate. That make me a loser?

Ax charmed the pants of many in Oz best I know. What a way to be a loser. [ note for the faint hearted " Charmed the pants of off" is a
literary metaphor possibly not reflected in reality but sadly I wasn't there]

I have no idea what their plans are - or if they have any at all - all I do know is that neither of them seem to be willing to actually confront the truth of what they have done to people and set it right and both of them are still so stupid that they actually think that Hubbard was more than a loser and failure who's only success in his life was conning gullible prats.

Maybe its a time for an overview.

M and R have had criticism for a few years now. They of course deserve it.

However we have to look at what " amends" they've made. in scn.
Or what restitution, or any suitable term.

They and there friends have been the most effective attack on the
cult we have seen. Pretty much equal with Anonymous. Or maybe better?
Its not a competition. Who cares.

Their friends and poster on their blog include the most effective critics
over and above those who are still scientologists.

Amy Scobee, Nancy Many, Mark headly, Jeff Hawkins who have all written excellent books in this area. Also Tory and others.

We also know that Marty and friends have documented the harrassment of FBI witnesses and have testified to the FBI.

We don't know all they've testified to and it would be a footbullet for them to say.

From Omar Kyhan:-

'The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.'

We shall see what the moving finger has to write.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Thanks Lurker, WildKat, Mick and Lady Bird. I take that as a big compliment coming from posters like you.

The story of RVY still gets me stirred up, the man truly was a hero and a giant of a man. The fact that M&M can ignore and stay silent on the tortures they and the cult inflicted upon him (and many other effective critics) says far more about the character of M&M than miles of their blog postings and ego masturbation. I truly believe we've seen no apologies or explanations because they don't regret or feel the need to apologize for any of it because those guys were really SPs - and that is truly disconcerting.

As I said previously I think M&M hate being stuck in the large tent labeled anti-CoS or critics. It was a tent they spent 20 years trying to destroy. I don't think they have changed their point of view about critics, they have just now conveniently placed them into 2 distinct camps - Critics of DM & Official CoS (i.e. their indies) and Critics of Scientology. They still believe anything done to critics of Scientology and Hubbard is fair game. All one has to do is look at their treatment of Scientology critics compared to their all loving embrace and masturbation of indies on his blog. Actions speak louder than words.

I think back to when I first started reading about CoS - in the late 90's. Mike and Marty were some of the biggest, meanest bogey men in the cult. There were all these posts and fantasies about what questions would be asked of M&M if their day in court, or depositions ever came. Hell, there's still a huge thread here on ESMB entitled "Questions for Mike Rinder" Until a few years ago you would have been laughed out of the room by critics for even suggesting trusting one word coming out of the mouths of M&M.

I do understand some people are trying to give M&M a fair chance since they have officially left the CoS, but until they leave the Hubbard programming in the dust I don't think that's wise. I think a lot of well meaning critics have also made the mistake of thinking "my enemy's enemy is my friend" when it comes to M&M and that's not the case. I personally consider myself a critic of all of Scientology, not just DM, the problem goes well beyond and is bigger than just the tantrum throwing midget.

Therefore M&M are in a personal battle against DM, not Scientology or the cult in general. In fact, they fanatically and ardently SUPPORT Hubbard and all the craziness he created and wrote which is the monster of Scientology. I don't believe for a minute they are against what we view as "abuses" if there is "source" to back it up. The only time they rant about abuses is when they think they can lay it directly on DM's doorstep.

M&M would fight against anything they view as anti-Hubbard with all the old tactics they could muster. When it comes to defending "the tech" I don't think they've changed one iota. In fact, in their minds probably the only thing that changed is DM was discovered to be an "SP" - and that's the only problem with Scientology, it's being run by an SP. After Scientology's big PTS is all cleared up, everything should be fine and dandy - just like it was back in Hubbard's day. LOL

I think the only major change with M&M is their view of DM - they went from being his acolytes to his enemies. Other than that, and some adjustments for living outside of the official cult bubble world, I think they are the basically the same people critics loathed and feared 20 years ago. (except maybe now they are willing to make a few more compromises with critics in order to get DM) They are still the hardcore, fanatical believers willing to go to any lengths to protect Hubbard and his tech.

I'd change " I think they are the basically the same people critics loathed and feared 20 years ago "

to:

I think they are still the same people critics loathed and feared 20 years ago.

To me, the M & M show remains slimey. And I not so sure about people who currently consider either of 'em as a "friend".

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It's a little like trying to figure out if certain high profile criminals (murderers, especially) are really sorry when they claim they are. Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, etc. They both repudiated their past actions but I only tend to believe one of them.

It's the same sort of thing.

There is a school of thought that says something THAT bad, people who were that terrible, could not possibly be retracted or apologized for, that those people would not be sincere and would not see the light even if they say they did.

My guess is that some people do and some don't and that it's damn hard to tell without risking one's trust.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Maybe its a time for an overview.

M and R have had criticism for a few years now. They of course deserve it.

However we have to look at what " amends" they've made. in scn.
Or what restitution, or any suitable term.

They and there friends have been the most effective attack on the
cult we have seen. Pretty much equal with Anonymous. Or maybe better?
Its not a competition. Who cares.

wow really? the most successful assault has been the enquiry in oz.

Which Marty tried to derail and which Rinder did not do anything to help.

As for the interviews - you may wish to cast your mind back and remember that the first set of stuff in the st pete times, and on Panorama had nothing to do with the intrepid duo.

I know that you think the sun shines out of every orifice they have but really Terril - it doesn't.

I do not say they have done nothing.

Just nothing in comparison to what they were trying to do when they were on the other side of things.

these peopel laughed at RVY and his cancer. these are people who lied about Lisa McPherson who destroyed evidence, made light of her death and who tried to destroy people suing the church.

it tales a little more than mouthing the words.

Their friends and poster on their blog include the most effective critics
over and above those who are still scientologists.

what definition of 'effective" are you using? it seems to have nothing to do with what happens to the cofs...

Amy Scobee, Nancy Many, Mark headly, Jeff Hawkins who have all written excellent books in this area. Also Tory and others.

Yeah - they wrote them without M&M too.

We also know that Marty and friends have documented the harrassment of FBI witnesses and have testified to the FBI.

we do? based on which statements from the FBI? or are you still channeling Marty?

 

[Infinite]

We also know that Marty and friends have documented the harrassment of FBI witnesses and have testified to the FBI.

No one *knows* that. Marty hasn't confirmed it, the last comment he made about the FBI was to call them a bunch of punks. The SP Times mentioned that Rinder has spoken to the FBI but I can only assume the source for that statement was Rinder himself, so, meh!

You keep repeating the statement, Terril, now show us your DOX.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

wow really? the most successful assault has been the enquiry in oz.

Which Marty tried to derail and which Rinder did not do anything to help.

As for the interviews - you may wish to cast your mind back and remember that the first set of stuff in the st pete times, and on Panorama had nothing to do with the intrepid duo.

I know that you think the sun shines out of every orifice they have but really Terril - it doesn't.

I do not say they have done nothing.

Just nothing in comparison to what they were trying to do when they were on the other side of things.

these peopel laughed at RVY and his cancer. these are people who lied about Lisa McPherson who destroyed evidence, made light of her death and who tried to destroy people suing the church.

it tales a little more than mouthing the words.



what definition of 'effective" are you using? it seems to have nothing to do with what happens to the cofs...

Amy Scobee, Nancy Many, Mark headly, Jeff Hawkins who have all written excellent books in this area. Also Tory and others.

Yeah - they wrote them without M&M too.




we do? based on which statements from the FBI? or are you still channeling Marty?

Score: Wenlock 1, Park Love.

Mark A. Baker

 

[Gottabrain]

Maybe its a time for an overview.

M and R have had criticism for a few years now. They of course deserve it.

Yes.

They and there friends have been the most effective attack on the cult we have seen. Pretty much equal with Anonymous. Or maybe better?
Its not a competition. Who cares.

There are a few flaws in what you say here, Terril. What Mick Wenlock said is true. Marty Rathburn made efforts to undermine Sen Xenophon (who may well end up being Prime Minister of Australia - the man is a tower of integrity in many areas and known for it in every state here) Marty was also against the inquiry and made statements to Aus media in an effort to interfere with the Inquiry and invalidate the testimonies of the ex's. He tried to water down the true history of Scientology, L Ron Hubbard and the C of S and spin it to something that DM started, which we all know is untrue. We lived it.

Unfortunately, governments are slow. We won the Inquiry, but are still waiting for the final version and implementation of the Public Benefits Test, which will take away the tax exempt status of the Church of Scientology and other blood-sucking cults here. And the "main office" of the C of S through which it conducts international finances is registered here in OZ, btw. (what a joke) http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...asion-accusation/story-e6frea83-1225882967693

All exposed now with all info in government records. Cheers to OZ! And this will mean it will lose its reciprocal tax exempt status in the UK, too.

But European Ex's and Anons in Italy, France, Russia, Germany and other countries have also hit the C of S hard. It isn't fair to say that Australia has hit hardest.

Finally, you give Marty credit for his "friends" and that's just wrong. Their accomplishments are their own and the most effective ones (i.e., the books) were done with little or no help from Marty. You are incorrectly assigning credit to Marty (wrong source) because he found it useful to himself to become friends with these people. They are not Indies. They are Ex's.

You are out of the loop on Anon and Ex projects, Terril. You have no idea the incredible amount of work and effort that goes on behind the scenes. Nor will you. Nor will any of us know any more than the projects we deal with. But it was a silly statement to even compare the two.

M&M has certainly got some people out and done some good, but has also gotten in the way of other projects.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory. Just by profiling:

Marty and DM are both egotists. Marty makes fun of DM every chance he has. No, they don't work together. No chance.

M&M do not have the courage or integrity to admit their crimes when they were executives and are still justifying them. This appeals to others who don't want to deal with the pain or hurt they have caused others.

Most "Indies" do not share M&Ms extremist 100% pro-Hubbard views. They were brainwashed once and don't want to be that stupid twice. I've run across very, very few who agree with M&M. Maybe because they don't have the crimes to cover up, it is easier for them to see the truth, bit by bit. Harder for people like M&M.

 

[Infinite]

M&M has certainly got some people out and done some good, but has also gotten in the way of other projects.

DOX PLOX.

 

[Gottabrain]

Lol! I'll leave that to his believers to document. I can't be bothered - not a fan.

 

[Infinite]

Lol! I'll leave that to his believers to document. I can't be bothered - not a fan.

Heh! Fair nuff. You can't anyway, there are no DOX. Its a bit of a worry, though, when people are repeating the PR and they're not even a fan.

 

[Gottabrain]

Heh! Fair nuff. You can't anyway, there are no DOX. Its a bit of a worry, though, when people are repeating the PR and they're not even a fan.

He did some media, he got some out. At least, they said he did on his blog.
Crikey, you're in a mood! You picked out the one positive statement and ignored all the rest I said. You don't have to convince ME not to trust them.

 

[Infinite]

He did some media, he got some out. At least, they said he did on his blog. Crikey, you're in a mood! You picked out the one positive statement and ignored all the rest I said. You don't have to convince ME not to trust them.

Yeah, true. Apologies if I've pissed you off. I know you're aware of what's going on at Martyworld. I just get rankled when I see even a scrap of M&M² Mythology repeated as if its some sort of self-evident truth. The fact that Marty did some media means he may have *helped* people to come to their senses, I accept that. It seems to me, however, that by the time people are looking at the media, they are already half way out the door and, further, Marty has a lot more information that would be of greater assistance than his faux mea culpa thus far.

 

[AnonKat]

Wise Beard Man

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/the-david-miscavige-vyrus-virus/#comment-108921

Wise Beard Man

His words are wise

His face is beard

Mark Bunker | March 2, 2011 at 11:06 am | Reply

Mike, I saw your comments reposted in a thread at whyweprotest.org and someone suggested they ask me or Jeff what we thought. I left a response there which I thought I would paste here along with a thank you for being Bob’s friend and helping him out when DM was coming down hard on him:

I believe Rinder’s take on this because Bob did come to feel Rinder was his friend. I knew this from my conversations with Bob over the last few years of his life, both during the Lisa trial and after the settlement. I put them back in touch after Bob and Stacy settled in Ireland. Both Rinder and Rathbun were indeed invited to Ireland to visit. Unfortunately, since Rinder and Rathbun’s every move was being watched by Scientology, they decided the time wasn’t right for them to visit Bob who tragically died a very short time later.

Bob felt betrayed by many of the people he helped over the years, chief among them was Dandar’s trial consultant, Patricia Greenway. After being hounded by both Scientology and his former friends, he had had all he could take. After the LMT closed it’s doors, I moved to New Hampshire to continue working on our website from Bob’s house. The pressure on Bob from both sides was immense and every day I wondered if this was the day I would show up to work to find that Bob had taken his own life. I remember Bob and Stacy’s first trip to meet with Scientology to discuss settlement. They didn’t tell me about it until they returned from the trip because they felt I would not take the news well. They told me they were shocked by how they were handled that day. They had successfully negotiated a settlement with these same people a few years earlier over the FACTnet lawsuit and they thought it might be possible to say, “Okay, we’re out…we’re going away…we won’t fund any more cases against Scientology.” Scientology handed them a new lawsuit for $10 million over Bob’s support of Gerry Armstrong and laid out the case for a $30 million RICO suit they said they were planning to file against him.

Bob made mistakes as did Dandar. They were human beings and as such were flawed. Scientology exploited those mistakes to try to destroy them both. Bob and Stacy both told me how much they appreciated Rinder acting as a buffer against Miscavige’s attempts to completely and utterly ruin Bob. After the settlement, we never talked about any of the details. They adhered to the gag agreement, but they did tell me how much they personally came to like Mike Rinder. I was touched by Rinder calling Bob a friend in the St. Pete Time’s story about Bob’s death.

Critics were torn apart by the Lisa case both because they felt Lisa deserved justice but also because many felt this was the case that would drive a stake through the heart of Scientology. My feeling was the criminal case was the one that really mattered. The civil one was a matter of money. The way the Lisa civil case ended was horrible and messy and unjust but weighing the case against Bob’s life was an easy choice for me. If Bob had never funded the case, it would have settled years earlier because Dandar would never have had the resources to withstand Scientology’s juggernaut. So it wound up with a settlement and another example of just how far Scientology will go to subvert justice. And Lisa’s story remains on the net for the world to see, with years worth of worldwide coverage of her treatment at the hands of Scientology available with the click of a mouse.

Bob and Rinder were indeed friends. And I have to say that I can imagine sitting down and having dinner with Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun and having fascinating friendly conversations and debates. And I can say with certainty that I will never again talk with Patricia Greenway. When that thought dawned on me last year, I found it bitterly ironic.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

DOX PLOX.

They have mentioned it on Rathbun's blog. This may not be adequate proof since with that, it's an allegation.

However, I do have friends who feel that reading the blog was helpful for them in deciding to leave the cult.

YMMV.

 

[Pooks]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/the-david-miscavige-vyrus-virus/#comment-108921

Mark Bunker | March 2, 2011 at 11:06 am | Reply

And here's a reply to Mark Bunker from Tikk, who doesn't have his

nose firmly planted up Marty or Bunker's Butt.


XENU TV said: ↑

[snip]Critics were torn apart by the Lisa case both because they felt Lisa deserved justice but also because many felt this was the case that would drive a stake through the heart of Scientology. My feeling was the criminal case was the one that really mattered. The civil one was a matter of money.

You appear to labor under the same cavalier misapprehension as Minton in declaring the civil suit to be merely a matter of money in contrast to the criminal case, which was categorically and exclusively about "justice." But just as Minton was mistaken that he had purchased himself a civil suit, so too is your attempt to define "justice," as amorphous a concept in American law as there is. Criminal prosecutions are brought on behalf of "the people" and civil lawsuits are brought by particular plaintiffs, who themselves define their reason or reason for filling suit, which often encompasses conceptions of "justice." True, a defendant is not imprisoned for being found liable in a wrongful death suit, and money damages are mostly all a plaintiff can expect. But if it were merely a "matter of money," as you suggest, all lawsuits would be sent off to a mediator to be forced to settle instead of going to trial. This distinction of yours is nothing more than a self-serving post-hoc rationalization to justify Minton's actions. I won't pretend to speak on behalf of the Estate, but perhaps the Estate wanted Scientology to be found liable for her death. Unless you can say with absolute certainty that this, or any other valid reason having nothing to do with money, was not the case, you have no business suggesting as much.

XENU TV said: ↑

[snip]If Bob had never funded the case, it would have settled years earlier because Dandar would never have had the resources to withstand Scientology's juggernaut. So it wound up with a settlement and another example of just how far Scientology will go to subvert justice.

Whoa... wasn't this merely "a matter of money" a paragraph ago? What's all this about justice? Just as you have no business defining what is and isn't justice on behalf of the Estate, you have no business definitively declaring what would have happened had Minton not funded the case. Somehow Dandar is managing to bring a wrongful death suit on behalf of the Kyle Brennan Estate without Minton's help this very moment. One rarely mentioned reality is the cost of Minton's imposition of himself on the McPherson civil case--so much of the peripheral litigation would not have existed but for Minton. I'm no accountant but to the extent Dandar wound up having to defend himself against Minton's allegations, later found by Schaeffer to be perjurious, the cost was certainly high, both as a dollar amount and as it undermined the case itself.

 

[me myself & i]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/the-david-miscavige-vyrus-virus/#comment-108921

Wise Beard Man

His words are wise

His face is beard

Anon Kat Man

His ears are up

His eyes are open

 

[Veda]

It's beginning to look as though Miscavige and Rinder did a bad cop/good cop number on Bob Minton, and it worked. It worked so well that, after Rinder had a falling out with Miscavige, Rinder continued to be a "friend" to the crushed Bob Minton.

 

[AnonKat]

bawww

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/the-david-miscavige-vyrus-virus/#comment-108921




And here's a reply to Mark Bunker from Tikk, who doesn't have his

You appear to labor under the same cavalier misapprehension as Minton in declaring the civil suit to be merely a matter of money in contrast to the criminal case, which was categorically and exclusively about "justice." But just as Minton was mistaken that he had purchased himself a civil suit, so too is your attempt to define "justice," as amorphous a concept in American law as there is. Criminal prosecutions are brought on behalf of "the people" and civil lawsuits are brought by particular plaintiffs, who themselves define their reason or reason for filling suit, which often encompasses conceptions of "justice." True, a defendant is not imprisoned for being found liable in a wrongful death suit, and money damages are mostly all a plaintiff can expect. But if it were merely a "matter of money," as you suggest, all lawsuits would be sent off to a mediator to be forced to settle instead of going to trial. This distinction of yours is nothing more than a self-serving post-hoc rationalization to justify Minton's actions. I won't pretend to speak on behalf of the Estate, but perhaps the Estate wanted Scientology to be found liable for her death. Unless you can say with absolute certainty that this, or any other valid reason having nothing to do with money, was not the case, you have no business suggesting as much.



Whoa... wasn't this merely "a matter of money" a paragraph ago? What's all this about justice? Just as you have no business defining what is and isn't justice on behalf of the Estate, you have no business definitively declaring what would have happened had Minton not funded the case. Somehow Dandar is managing to bring a wrongful death suit on behalf of the Kyle Brennan Estate without Minton's help this very moment. One rarely mentioned reality is the cost of Minton's imposition of himself on the McPherson civil case--so much of the peripheral litigation would not have existed but for Minton. I'm no accountant but to the extent Dandar wound up having to defend himself against Minton's allegations, later found by Schaeffer to be perjurious, the cost was certainly high, both as a dollar amount and as it undermined the case itself.

Bunkers reply on WWP:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/rinder-sez-bob-minton-blackmailed-by-dm.77347/

"I didn't mean to suggest that the family wanted money as the end goal of the Lisa case and I can see how what I wrote gave that horrible impression. Clearly that was not the case. They wanted justice, as did we all. The end of the trial was a horrible mess for everyone concerned and was another example of how Scientology subverts the court system. For me, that horrible mess was better than finding Bob dead which seemed like a real possibility.

My sloppy analogy about criminal and civil justice compares this case to the O.J. trial. The criminal trial ended with O.J. walking free, getting away with two murders. The civil trial found him guilty and forced to pay money he has fought hard for years not to give up. At the end of it all, two people remain dead with their families devastated while the murderer lived on in his mansion with his replacement Nicole-lookalike. Justice would have found him put behind bars even though he had been a beloved celebrity.

As with the O.J. trial, the court of popular opinion remains the final arbiter of justice. More people believe O.J. was guilty and those murders became his legacy. And Lisa's death is part of Scientology's legacy. It will forever be a stain on their reputation. Her story lives on and she will always be remembered. And O.J. wound up behind bars after all because of his own personal demons.

Scientology's story is not yet finished. There has been an unraveling going on and Rinder and Rathbun have been a part of that. We may not agree on everything but I'm glad Marty's blog got out the Paul Haggis letter, for instance. I'm glad he has a place where current Scientologists can see some of the madness going on in management and say they no longer wish to be a part of it. I'm happy when his blog brings out new information about slave labor being used to make Tom Cruise's trailers and motorcycles. We may wish it were like the movies and the two of them would march into the D.A.'s office, slam down a folder of evidence and the credits would roll as we knew justice was about to be done but look what happened when Marty admitted it was he who ordered the destruction of evidence in the Lisa case. The St. Pete Times asked the D.A. if they would reopen the case and he said no way.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012234.ece

But new information was revealed. New pieces of the puzzle were put into place. And the unraveling continues."