Wayt... Whut???

[La La Lou Lou]

My opinions have changed a bit reading everyone's comments here. The fact is we can not look inside someone's skull. What motivated Debbs at the time we can't tell, she may have just planned to slap slappy back and not looked further than that or she may have planned the life of a lottery winner, or she may well have wanted to get scn back from the hands of a money grabbing psycho, and back to where she thought it was all fluffy again.

Certainly she was hurt and emotionally wrecked at the time. She could have taken her gagging money and had an OK life but she did write the famous email, she did serious damage to the church by doing so, many cash cow OTs have left due to her. I am thankful for that. At the time, when she took the hush money I felt so shocked and disgusted, let down. I still do thinking that she's watching the tropical sun setting while eating salads and lobster and knocking back the cocktails, while I had to wash plates, scrub toilets and make beds after I left. Perhaps there is an element of sour grapes, anyway I might not be on a beach but I'm doing OK, tropical sun sets are nice but northern ones last much longer, lobster gets stuck in my teeth and I can still eat salad and mangoes and papaya for that matter, curried goat is available here too, I don't need to be in the West Indies, and if I want heat I can just turn up the radiator.

 

[Anonycat]

My opinions have changed a bit reading everyone's comments here. The fact is we can not look inside someone's skull. What motivated Debbs at the time we can't tell, she may have just planned to slap slappy back and not looked further than that or she may have planned the life of a lottery winner, or she may well have wanted to get scn back from the hands of a money grabbing psycho, and back to where she thought it was all fluffy again.

Certainly she was hurt and emotionally wrecked at the time. She could have taken her gagging money and had an OK life but she did write the famous email, she did serious damage to the church by doing so, many cash cow OTs have left due to her. I am thankful for that. At the time, when she took the hush money I felt so shocked and disgusted, let down. I still do thinking that she's watching the tropical sun setting while eating salads and lobster and knocking back the cocktails, while I had to wash plates, scrub toilets and make beds after I left. Perhaps there is an element of sour grapes, anyway I might not be on a beach but I'm doing OK, tropical sun sets are nice but northern ones last much longer, lobster gets stuck in my teeth and I can still eat salad and mangoes and papaya for that matter, curried goat is available here too, I don't need to be in the West Indies, and if I want heat I can just turn up the radiator.

Debbie can probably get a lobster or mango salad, but the one thing they do not have in Guadeloupe is scientology. I think it's safe to say, that given options, she and Wayne would leave it forever. Because they did. If we observers take that as an example, when reading the letter and observing her actions, clearly they do not match. Their IAS status will never be changing. But it may be a solid example of not what they write, but what they do. It doesn't let us observers crack the Cook code, but it is a start.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Debbie can probably get a lobster or mango salad, but the one thing they do not have in Guadeloupe is scientology. I think it's safe to say, that given options, she and Wayne would leave it forever. Because they did. If we observers take that as an example, when reading the letter and observing her actions, clearly they do not match. Their IAS status will never be changing. But it may be a solid example of not what they write, but what they do. It doesn't let us observers crack the Cook code, but it is a start.

On the other hand a few more icebergs evaporate and they're swimming.

We do forget that for those who do still believe that leaving the 'church' and not being allowed your next step is worse than loosing your friends and relatives. For a believer to talk out is a huge thing. Eternity is a long time if she still believes. It brings home to me just how powerful excommunication is.

In the end of the day she did some shit and some good, only she and Anubis can work out the balance, I'll leave it up to them, I left liability formulas behind.

 

[aegerprimo]

What bothers me about Debbie Cook, and I am just putting this out here…

She and her husband had the travel blog website (which is now down for maintenance) with pics of them on sunny tropical beaches. With her gag $ she was able to afford that kind of life.

I think it’s a slap in the face to people like Bea, Laura D., etc. It’s one thing to take gag money, and I’m not saying I agree with that or not. I’m not saying if I agree or not that she could’ve done more whistle-blowing than her famous email and what she said in court.

But to make a blog and post pictures showing what a wonderful life you have (and you need $$ to have that kind of life). Really?

I would also like to reiterate, that as an executive in the Sea Org, Debbie probably lived decently. Did someone mention on this thread that she bought a luxury car with commissions from a $400K reg cycle? I tell you, most SO members can’t even afford to own a bicycle. I am sure a few bicycle-less, car-less, bus-riding, over-crowded dorm dwelling SO members helped make that big reg cycle happen for Debbie. Just sayin…

I hear about that, and hear about Mark Headley customizing Tom Cruise’s car for slave SO pay… I really just want to SCREAM!

I was in the Sea Org, so I’m not ignorant of how the “cardinals and bishops” live compared to the “fryers and nuns”.

(Thank you for letting me vent.)

 

[Bea Kiddo]

I have now watched the videos of Debbie that AnnonKat has posted to this thread.

I say congratulations Debbie. What she did was very brave and I appreciate her effort. She has done a lot of damage from those 2 short pieces. And the fact that they backed down really appears to be a sign of guilt. She did a great job and was very brave to do this.

But still. She took blood money to shut up. In the video she is VERY CLEAR that Scn is her religion, and her main concern is with one member. So she is still a believer. I still don't get that. I UNDERSTAND she was being sued, she was cornered. But if they thought her information was so damaging, and they backed down, she really had no reason to cooperate with the lawyers of the church. She could have refused.

But I guess, as everyone says, she was beaten down. And she beat others down for years. But we are not talking about that.

I am sure she is snickering about all of this. But to DM or to critics or both? Seems like she played both sides to me.

I am sure I will just be going in circles repeating myself. And that is ok.

 

[Enthetan]

What bothers me about Debbie Cook, and I am just putting this out here…

She and her husband had the travel blog website (which is now down for maintenance) with pics of them on sunny tropical beaches. With her gag $ she was able to afford that kind of life.

I think it’s a slap in the face to people like Bea, Laura D., etc. It’s one thing to take gag money, and I’m not saying I agree with that or not. I’m not saying if I agree or not that she could’ve done more whistle-blowing than her famous email and what she said in court.

But to make a blog and post pictures showing what a wonderful life you have (and you need $$ to have that kind of life). Really?

I would also like to reiterate, that as an executive in the Sea Org, Debbie probably lived decently. Did someone mention on this thread that she bought a luxury car with commissions from a $400K reg cycle? I tell you, most SO members can’t even afford to own a bicycle. I am sure a few bicycle-less, car-less, bus-riding, over-crowded dorm dwelling SO members helped make that big reg cycle happen for Debbie. Just sayin…

I hear about that, and hear about Mark Headley customizing Tom Cruise’s car for slave SO pay… I really just want to SCREAM!

I was in the Sea Org, so I’m not ignorant of how the “cardinals and bishops” live compared to the “fryers and nuns”.

(Thank you for letting me vent.)

When I was at Flag, I was once able to see exactly how much the FSO reges and sales people made in a typical week. One figure that stuck with me was the FSO bookstore officer making over a thousand dollars that week (and this was in early 1980's dollars). I remember comparing that with what I made, and being somewhat disturbed. The reges were all able to afford nice cars.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

What bothers me about Debbie Cook, and I am just putting this out here…

She and her husband had the travel blog website (which is now down for maintenance) with pics of them on sunny tropical beaches. With her gag $ she was able to afford that kind of life.

I think it’s a slap in the face to people like Bea, Laura D., etc. It’s one thing to take gag money, and I’m not saying I agree with that or not. I’m not saying if I agree or not that she could’ve done more whistle-blowing than her famous email and what she said in court.

But to make a blog and post pictures showing what a wonderful life you have (and you need $$ to have that kind of life). Really?

I would also like to reiterate, that as an executive in the Sea Org, Debbie probably lived decently. Did someone mention on this thread that she bought a luxury car with commissions from a $400K reg cycle? I tell you, most SO members can’t even afford to own a bicycle. I am sure a few bicycle-less, car-less, bus-riding, over-crowded dorm dwelling SO members helped make that big reg cycle happen for Debbie. Just sayin…

I hear about that, and hear about Mark Headley customizing Tom Cruise’s car for slave SO pay… I really just want to SCREAM!

I was in the Sea Org, so I’m not ignorant of how the “cardinals and bishops” live compared to the “fryers and nuns”.

(Thank you for letting me vent.)

I don't want to flip flop between viewpoints all the time, but I do, another thing is that people on Marty's lines and on this board paid donos for them to fight this court case. OK the money they got from the 'church' was paid in by IAS members to help the church fight so that was really what they paid for, but if I'd paid her money to fight the church over her gagging order only to find her sucking the flesh off a lobster claw and being completely gagged I'd probably be annoyed.

The fact is Debbie Cook I really don't know how I feel about you.

 

[Sidney18511]

Don't forget that at the conclusion of this case the COS denied that they settled with any type of payment. They said that both sides agreed to drop charges, shake hands and make nice.

The COS did this as a kick in the ass to stop any exes supporting people in future legal cases involving lawsuits against the COS. They WANTED people to feel screwed by Debbie and her Husband. And Debbie played right into this by denying any monetary compensation yet posting pictures of their tropical adventures.

Scientology.......the evil never ends. And they know how to plan ahead for their own benefit.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

This thread has gotten very long and I'm not caught up but I noted a few things said here as regards Debbie where I felt I wanted to comment.


A couple of times it was mentioned that Debbie is now in the Caribbean sipping Mai Thais on a beach. If this is true that gives me every indication that she took a big payoff and headed for an undeservered retirement.


OK XB, Debbie suffered abuse at the Int base of a degrading nature. I'm sure it was a bad scene and traumatizing. When taken by itself, it makes it seem that Debbie worked diligently for years and then was treated like garbage and discarded. i don't think anyone should be subjected to that kind of abuse.

However, Debbie was in charge of that very abuse IIRC just prior to being a victim of it. She was the oppressor just before being oppressed. She did it because Debbie follows orders and Debbie follows orders to her advantage.

She was a Class IV auditor at Flag before she became Captain of the FSO. You don't get that position in the CO$ without following orders and dishing out abuse and discarding others with wild abandon. It just doesn't happen unless you are uniquely talented but the uniquely talented usually don't get positions of power, they just get used.

She was pampered on her post as Captain and the service that she provided to those who went to Flag was a lie and doesn't produce the promised results so she is a scam artist.

Like I said, Debbie followers orders to her advantage. She wanted revenge so she wrote that email. The question is, did she write that email to fix Scientology and to help those being scammed or was it a calculated move because she had run out of money to let DM know she had the power of influence to severely upset his gravy train?

She played everyone I think. her qiuid pro quo statement was telling but the icing is that she is in the Caribbean sipping alcahol on a beach.

This is my speculation but I think she was running out of money and devised a scheme to extact more.

She had minor contact with Marty but enough so that Marty would want to help. Marty knew about Ray Jeffereys and knew he was the guy to go after the CO$ and Debbie was the means. But Debbie had a plan she would follow Ray's instructions to the letter (she was good at following orders) and get the CO$ into a position to cough up her retirement. She had been in the Hole so she knew what it took to look really bad. Scientologists at that level are trained to lie convincingly and though I'm sure her story of the Hole was true, her satements that she would have killed her baby to escape or some such i beleive was embellishment and her physical condition, while it probably exists, not quite so bad as she depicts. She is sitting on a beach drinking and alcahol is not good for inflammatory conditions.

So while she may have thrown a spear into Scientology , I don't beleive she did it for anyone but Debbie and Wayne and everyone else is on their own.

IMO Debbie is least deserving of a settlement from the CO$ because she had years of pampering and threw many under the bus on her way. Debbie is a calculating Sociopath as well. I don't give her slack

I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and "toss they little rice and beans on her" and when Miss Thing asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and toss their rice and beans on her and when she asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me.

People who live on the outer fridges of the internet, like myself tend to forget how just because we read about the hole daily most people never do hear of it, or forced abortions, sleepless nights and beans and rice and unattainable goals and the RPF and child labour etc. So yes getting this data out in the open is good. I just hoped she would have won, got compensation with which she would have paid her lawyers and those that helped her and still been able to live in nice way but without selling her soul with a shut up clause.

 

[exsomessenger]

I guess from a COS public point of view the Capt FSO would seem to wield complete power over the Flag Land Base. this is simple not the case at all. The Capt FSO is nothing more than a prop for the public. they don't make any decisions that are not handed to them to execute. The reason Debbie got on post was because The prior capt FSO was doing exactly what she ended up doing. Taking FSM commissions and "going off the rails" The real people behind the running of the FLB and most Scientology bases is the CMO. Of course the CMO is a slave to the CMOI and RTC. Debbie was picked for a few reasons one of wich was he willingness to do what ever it took to forward command intention. Ron Norton Jon LUndeen did the exact same thing, in the 80's that debbie did later. The number one stat and priority of the FLB is.....wait for it... GI ( gross income) not OT's, auditors etc. just GI. I manned CMO missions as the Cope Officer CMO CW. can anyone guess what a majority of these missions were for? I went on dozens upon dozens of missions while I was there. Most of these were into div 2 or 4. div 4 only to handle or help div 2.

When Norton was the Capt FSO he was hauled up to INT many time for "briefings" which translates to HEAVY MEST work and sec checking. same thing happend to debbie. she may have seemed like the head honcho but in truth she was just a willing puppet forwarding command intention.

Debbie was all over the tech lines prior to being looked at as the next capt FSO. there were a few temp capts put into place, names escape me atm, She had the public's ear and was a natural fit. I'm sure most know this info. It just seemed like it needed to be said.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and toss their rice and beans on her and when she asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me.

I am going to put it very simply. And I don't mean anything offensively to anyone. But I am going to keep it simple simple simple:


Sea Org members DO NOT BACK DOWN THAT EASILY. She backed down and got out.... It's very fishy.

-----

Let's take a "what if" scenario: Let's say everything went down just as it did... up to the point of Scn lawyers dropping the case and Debbie quietly backing down. She has not taken Scn to Court, her email is really just a loud KR on one corrupt member, asking others to do something about it.

Now take DM out of the scenario. Lets say someone did get him ousted and RPFed and put in the hole like he deserves. Or whatever. Debbie would still be in good standing with the Church and probably could come back.

------

(IS this rumor or fact that she got a payout?) So she takes the money to hush up. That is AGAINST Scn, it is not against David Miscavige. She is taking money from the parishioners that she emailed and told not to donate.

-----

The line is oh-so-fine here I think.

Her taking the money means she has walked away from Scn as a religion.

-----

Don't get me wrong. I am not a Scientologist. It's just born and raised in, plus years in the Sea Org I know how things go. I know how it operates. I know what are the "biggest sins" to them and what are not. Taking a payout means she is out. They will not let her back in. That is a sin. Can't explain any other way.

Hope this helps?

 

[Student of Trinity]

When I was at Flag, I was once able to see exactly how much the FSO reges and sales people made in a typical week. One figure that stuck with me was the FSO bookstore officer making over a thousand dollars that week (and this was in early 1980's dollars). I remember comparing that with what I made, and being somewhat disturbed. The reges were all able to afford nice cars.

It sounds as though becoming a reg was breaking bad.

 

[NoName]

I am going to put it very simply. And I don't mean anything offensively to anyone. But I am going to keep it simple simple simple:


Sea Org members DO NOT BACK DOWN THAT EASILY. She backed down and got out.... It's very fishy.

-----

Let's take a "what if" scenario: Let's say everything went down just as it did... up to the point of Scn lawyers dropping the case and Debbie quietly backing down. She has not taken Scn to Court, her email is really just a loud KR on one corrupt member, asking others to do something about it.

Now take DM out of the scenario. Lets say someone did get him ousted and RPFed and put in the hole like he deserves. Or whatever. Debbie would still be in good standing with the Church and probably could come back.

------

(IS this rumor or fact that she got a payout?) So she takes the money to hush up. That is AGAINST Scn, it is not against David Miscavige. She is taking money from the parishioners that she emailed and told not to donate.

-----

The line is oh-so-fine here I think.

Her taking the money means she has walked away from Scn as a religion.

-----

Don't get me wrong. I am not a Scientologist. It's just born and raised in, plus years in the Sea Org I know how things go. I know how it operates. I know what are the "biggest sins" to them and what are not. Taking a payout means she is out. They will not let her back in. That is a sin. Can't explain any other way.

Hope this helps?

When Tony Ortega reported on Mosey hiring Sugar Ray, he said that this was the same guy who got large cash settlements for Debbie Cook and the PI's. He didnt' say "reportedly" - he stated it as fact.

That was the closest I've seen to confirmation, but considering it's Tony I would treat it as a fact now.

 

[TG1]

Of course she got a payout! How is that not obvious?!

The settlement document in The Debbie Cook Affair that is public relates to the issues that were raised by the Church's lawsuit against her and the settlement of those issues.

However, separate from those issues, she and the Church were free to make any new legal and financial arrangements with each other that they wanted. Obviously, they did.

TG1

 

[freethinker]

Don't forget that Debbie had one of the finest lawyers in Texas if not the whole country. She would not have gone up on the stand to say what she did if Jeffreys had said no. I am sure he knew that the gag order was unenforcable as 1)She was under duress, 2) Did not have legal counsel to consult as regards the NDA. I am sure that Jeffereys had his strategy ready for that at any stage of the game.

On the other point, representatives of the CO$ lie. They have done it from the first lawsuit, hell, the first book written by Hubbard so for them to say she received nothing for her troubles is just bullshit. How did Jeffreys get paid for his work? Would he have taken Mosey's case on the same basis if Debbie's became a freebie?

I am not convinced that Debbie wrote that email as an attempt to restore Scientology to LRH perfection (take that to mean what you want). She took a calculated risk and I will bet she had Jeffrey's in her sights before she took that risk or otherwise she was wide open to Fair Game relentless style. I can't see Debbie doing a selfless act for the good of others and that is why I am convinced she contrived the whole thing, she is a good actress, she got people to come to Flag thinking their probems would be solved. She had Scientologists going to her website, she was an opinion leader so she could have just kept going on the same path as she was. She didn't change a thing within the CO$ management or application of policy and tech so really, she just got a payoff. If she had received nothing, she would not be on that beach because she was in finacial trouble before she fired that email.

You think Debbie is still moving up the bridge?

I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and "toss they little rice and beans on her" and when Miss Thing asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me.

 

[aegerprimo]

I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and "toss they little rice and beans on her" and when Miss Thing asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me.

Amy Scobee and Mark Headley wrote whistle-blowing books... Debbie wrote an email. Aimee and Mark did not take gag $... Debbie did.

IMHO Aimee and Mark are on a totally different level than Debbie.

 

[Gib]

Amy Scobee and Mark Headley wrote whistle-blowing books... Debbie wrote an email. Aimee and Mark did not take gag $... Debbie did.

IMHO Aimee and Mark are on a totally different level than Debbie.

yes, but Amy & Headley were declared. their books no reach in PT members.

Debbie was not declared, and her message reach in PT members.

Getting oneself declared will not reach still existing members. You can't talk to them unless really personal friends and that is even hard as one has to get past the wall of BS PTS/SP tech.

As an example, just last year March of so, I went o the bookstore to see if I could find Reitmans or Headleys book. Found Headleys and started reading it, but I was shaking, I was nervous and sccared, I was about to commit a crime in the scientology world. I had to make sure nobody was there at the bookstore that I knew.

Gawd, I look back at that and just laugh. But what a fuk'n mindfuk. Here a free man who is involved in an organization that is supposed to free people, increase their communications & ability,

and yet I can't even read a book. LOL

But I had to push myself thru that, that BS PTS/SP tech.

 

[Deeana]

If anyone knows, what was the reason for going to Guadaloupe, specifically? And wasn't there later information that they had moved on to the Bahamas?

Within the Caribbean nations, you don't get to just plop yourself down and say "Hey, I've arrived". You get to visit. Each nation has its own laws regarding residency. And mostly that involves money. You must either purchase real estate or start a business.

Unless you are in the US Virgin Islands, you are not a citizen - you are an "ex-pat". If you are mega-wealthy you will be treated with "respect". But as a somewhat "average Joe" who is not being subsidized by a trust fund, unless you are in a job position that is somehow benefitting the locals, such as perhaps a health care provider, there is a tendency to be looked up with suspicion.

I never saw the posted photographs of the place Debbie Cook was living. But I can assure you that the photos taken beachside were not taken at their home. Miscavige himself might recoil at the cost of a beachside property on ANY of the Caribbean islands.

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FWIW: Many people do not particularly like warm water lobster. It can be quite tough and has a different taste - not sweet. Very different from the Maine lobster.

 

[TG1]

They moved to Guadaloupe, a Caribbean island.

Then they moved to Baja California, Mexico -- down near Cabo San Lucas.

Then (I think) they moved further north up near Rosarita Beach (still in Baja, but closer to the US border).

Last I heard they were in the Bahamas.

The impression I had is that they hadn't bought any property, but were taking long-term rentals that didn't appear (in the pictures they posted) to be all that expensive ... nice, but nothing too luxe.

FTR, my only info source on all this is the Web site Wayne put up at http://waynebaumgarten.com/, which is now "closed for maintenance."