Belfast Gay Pride says no to Anonymous

[Antagone]

Back in May I asked on the Belfast Anonymous local forum if people would be interested in taking part in the Gay Pride parade to be held on on July 31. Response was positive so I sent in an application - and heard nothing back.

Some Anons decided they wanted to attend anyway to show their support since it's a public event which goes through the streets of Belfast. I was a bit shocked to get this email from the parade organisers tonight, the day before the parade is taking place.

Dear Parade Applicant,

Belfast Pride has reviewed your application on behalf of Belfast Anonymous submitted by ***** ******* on 5/25/2010 8:49:31 AM (MM/DD/YYYY).

We would like to inform you that your application is Not Approved.

Your application has not been approved on the basis of evidence on website forums indicating non desirable behaviour and also threatening to proceed on these actions whether or not your application is approved. Also, for causing possible offence by singling out a religious figure. Please note the PSNI will remove anyone trying to take part without our approval.

If your float marshals have not yet been attendance at any training event there will be training provided on the day please inform them to arrive at 11.45pm back stage at the Party in the Square Event in Custom House Square to check in your float and await your training.

Please email [email protected] if there has to be any name changes in your marshals as back stage access is restricted to those names we have already received.

We look forward to seeing you on Parade day and if you require any more information please contact us in advance.

Kind regards

__________________

Belfast Pride Team




W


::


www.belfastpride.com

H


::


Belfast LGBT Centre

First Floor

9-13 Waring Street

Belfast

BT1 2DX


'Proudly Celebrating 20 Years'

Belfast Pride is an association with charitable status registered in Northern Ireland, charity number XR40124. Registered office: First Floor, 9-13 Waring Street, Belfast. BT1 2DX. A list of members is available from our registered office.

I have sent them this reply.

Dear Belfast Pride

Firstly let me say I am rather puzzled by your comments.

I submitted an application on May 25 to participate in your parade and you only reply more than nine weeks later, at the last possible moment.

I would like you to show what evidence you have indicating 'non desirable behaviour'. We have been protesting and educating people in Northern Ireland about Scientology for more than two years and not a single person associated with our group has been arrested or given any formal warning about behaviour. At all times we have stayed within the law and have excellent relations with the PSNI.

I would also like to query your statement that we would be 'causing possible offence by singling out a religious figure'. Scientology is not a religion and is not recognised as a religious organisation in the United Kingdom. Again, I would like to know what proof you have this is what we were intending to do. In my application I linked to Youtube videos which showed Anonymous groups in America participating in Pride parades and there was absolutely no mention of religion from the marchers in the signs and banners they carried.

Our sole intention was to show support for your parade and you clearly state on your website that groups and individuals are welcome to do so.

However, you did not bother to reply to my application or contact me on the telephone number I provided. Since you seem to be paying close attention to our site then I'm sure you will have noticed I did mention this.

Some people were planning to attend. At no point did they indicate any intention to participate in the parade itself so you have no right to state anyone was 'threatening to proceed on these actions whether or not your application is approved'. Threat is a very strong word and I personally do not like being accused of such behaviour. I have studied your website and nowhere is there any indication that members of the public are not welcome to go along and watch the parade.

In conclusion, I feel that you owe myself and Belfast Anonymous an apology for your remarks.

 

[byte301]

Back in May I asked on the Belfast Anonymous local forum if people would be interested in taking part in the Gay Pride parade to be held on on July 31. Response was positive so I sent in an application - and heard nothing back.

Some Anons decided they wanted to attend anyway to show their support since it's a public event which goes through the streets of Belfast. I was a bit shocked to get this email from the parade organisers tonight, the day before the parade is taking place.


I have sent them this reply.

While they are busy watching your website perhaps it would have behooved them to research what elron said about homosexuals.

It's totally THEIR lose Antagone. What a crock.

 

[TG1]

Good letter, Belfast Anonymous.

Could be this is a case of mistaken identity. Maybe you could just get in touch with them by phone or face to face and straighten things out.

They do have the wrong information about you and your friends, for sure. Would be interesting to learn how that happened.

Good luck to you.

 

[Antagone]

I'll don my tinfoil hat of speculation for a moment and put forward the idea that it's the Belfast Scilons who are behind this. The Pride organisers didn't respond to my application for nine weeks and I really doubt they were leaving other applicants waiting for a decision until the day before.

It could well be that one of the Belfast Scilons saw us discussing attending the parade and baawwwed to the organisers that a terrorist/hate group was planning to gatecrash their party.

Not to worry. I'm going to save the money I would have spent tomorrow and use it to fund even more raids right outside the Scilon mission in Belfast.

 

[Smurf]

While they are busy watching your website perhaps it would have behooved them to research what elron said about homosexuals.

It's totally THEIR lose Antagone. What a crock.

I suspect it may have to do with their misunderstanding of the terrminology anons use toward one another, most notable, "faggot". Whereas, in the U.S. using the word "nigger" is considered to be offensive when uttered by someone other than an African-American, African Americans have uttered "nigger" within their own community in rap music and a casual conversation.

I would have informed Befast Gay Pride that Anonymous has been accepted & marched in many gay pride parades worldwide and they are setting a bad precedent in condoning reverse bigotry.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

They definitely owe you an apology, they probably should send Paul Haggis an apology too for acting as if the cult is a religious organization.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/26/paul-haggis-scientology-prop-8

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I'll don my tinfoil hat of speculation for a moment and put forward the idea that it's the Belfast Scilons who are behind this.

I doubt that very much. Pride is all about gays having PRIDE in themselves. It is not a forum for the enemies of something else entirely. I think the Belfast Pride folk have made a very wise decision with regard your application.

Go to the parade & have fun, but do it in a spirit of appreciation for the gays in your life, not out of some sort of animosity for the church of L.Ron Hubbard. There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.


Mark A. Baker

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I doubt that very much. Pride is all about gays having PRIDE in themselves. It is not a forum for the enemies of something else entirely. I think the Belfast Pride folk have made a very wise decision with regard your application.

Go to the parade & have fun, but do it in a spirit of appreciation for the gays in your life, not out of some sort of animosity for the church of L.Ron Hubbard. There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.


Mark A. Baker

I'm sure the Church of Scientology had nothing to do with influencing their decision on this matter, as you said they want the parade to be about displaying pride in their sexuality and do not want the focus to possibly shift away from it, but that is not what was said in the response.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Antagone, your letter responding back was very good!

There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.

Did I miss something here? Where was the indication that this was the intent of the Anon's?

 

[Carmel]

I don't understand their first letter........First they say application not approved, but then they give instructions re training for the float on the day.

What exactly were they saying "no" to? What was the application for? .......It seems that they weren't saying "no" to anon joining in on the day, they even said they look forward to seeing you on parade day. :confused2:

 

[exsomessenger]

I don't understand their first letter........First they say application not approved, but then they give instructions re training for the float on the day.

What exactly were they saying "no" to? What was the application for? .......It seems that they weren't saying "no" to anon joining in on the day, they even said they look forward to seeing you on parade day. :confused2:

I read it the same way Carmel. They say not approved then talk about the float training and back lot passes.:confused2:

 

[Carmel]

I read it the same way Carmel. They say not approved then talk about the float training and back lot passes.:confused2:

Well, it's the way it reads...........We clearly are missing some relevant info on this one.

 

[Antagone]

I suspect it may have to do with their misunderstanding of the terrminology anons use toward one another, most notable, "faggot". Whereas, in the U.S. using the word "nigger" is considered to be offensive when uttered by someone other than an African-American, African Americans have uttered "nigger" within their own community in rap music and a casual conversation.

I would have informed Befast Gay Pride that Anonymous has been accepted & marched in many gay pride parades worldwide and they are setting a bad precedent in condoning reverse bigotry.

But we don't use a lot of *chan speak on our local forums Smurf so I very much doubt that's the problem.

 

[Antagone]

I doubt that very much. Pride is all about gays having PRIDE in themselves. It is not a forum for the enemies of something else entirely. I think the Belfast Pride folk have made a very wise decision with regard your application.

Go to the parade & have fun, but do it in a spirit of appreciation for the gays in your life, not out of some sort of animosity for the church of L.Ron Hubbard. There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.


Mark A. Baker

Please stop putting words into my mouth or accusing the Belfast Anons of something they had no intention of doing. We made the application in the same spirit that other Anonymous groups across the world have done and wanted to participate to show our support of the LGTG community.

After all the homophobic teachings of L. Ron Hubbard is what motivates some of us to go out and protest in the first place.

 

[Antagone]

I'm sure the Church of Scientology had nothing to do with influencing their decision on this matter, as you said they want the parade to be about displaying pride in their sexuality and do not want the focus to possibly shift away from it, but that is not what was said in the response.

Do you really think the organisers waited nine weeks to refuse our application at the last minute? Another Belfast Anon made an application last year and never got any reply. When I applied this year I went to great lengths to explain in the application that we wouldn't be participating as a form of protest, but as a show of support and even included links to videos of other Anonymous groups participating in similar parades.

The difference is that this year some of the Belfast Anons decided they wanted to attend the event. There is a huge difference between attending a public event and holding a protest or even trying to gatecrash a parade. I really do find it difficult to believe the people at Belfast Pride are avidly following our local site, although I know the Belfast Scilons do.

However, I've said that is pure speculation on my part and I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if evidence is produced otherwise.

 

[Antagone]

Well, it's the way it reads...........We clearly are missing some relevant info on this one.

You've got the exact same information I got and I cut and pasted the email in full. I can put up a screen shot if it helps to clarify things.

Yes, I thought it was a strange response as well and can only surmise it is a standard email of acceptance, which had the rejection notice shoehorned into it. It would be interesting to see how many groups have had applications rejected.

 

[exsomessenger]

The teachings of the Church of Scientology are based upon the writings of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard (1911-1986).

One of his most famous books was published in 1950-MAY, "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health." 1 It has never gone out of print since. It had sold over 17 million copies worldwide by mid-2004. 8 Book 2, Chapter 5, Page 120 says, in part:

"The sexual pervert is actually quite ill physically."

The term "dynamic two" within Dianetics normally refers to the human urge to procreate.

One year later, in 1951, Hubbard published "Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior." 2 One source has quoted excerpts from it. 3 Hubbard crated a "tone scale" which classifies individuals and human behavior. The scale runs from -3 to +4. He apparently rated gay and lesbian behavior at a 1.1. -- between "fear" (1.0) and "anger" (1.5). On this scale, -3 means death and +4 is the most positive rating attainable. 4

Book One, Chapter 18, Page 116 says:

"At 1.1 on the tone scale, we enter the area of the most vicious reversal of the second dynamic. Here we have promiscuity, perversion, sadism and irregular practices."

This presumably includes homosexual behavior. In Book One, Chapter 27, Page 163, he writes:

"From 1.3 down to 0.6 we have the general area of the subversive, who promises a people freedom and equality and gives them a slaughter of their best minds and cultural institutions, to the end of a totalitarian dominance."

In Page 89-90, he writes:

"Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized; for here is the level of the contagion of immorality, and the destruction of ethics...No social order which desires to survive dates overlook its stratum 1.1's. No social order will survive which does not remove these people from its midst."

One of Hubbard's solutions to homosexuality was quarantine; the other was counseling with the goal of raising the individual's rating above 1.1:

"The only answers would seem to be the permanent quarantine of such persons from society to avoid the contagion of their insanities and the general turbulence which they bring to any order, thus forcing it lower on the scale, or processing such persons until they have attained a level on the tone scale which gives them value." 5

It is important to realize that L.R. Hubbard's beliefs matched those of mainstream psychiatry and psychology at the time.

 

[Carmel]

You've got the exact same information I got and I cut and pasted the email in full. I can put up a screen shot if it helps to clarify things.

Yes, I thought it was a strange response as well and can only surmise it is a standard email of acceptance, which had the rejection notice shoehorned into it. It would be interesting to see how many groups have had applications rejected.

What was the application for, exactly? If it was to be part of the parade, is there some reason why ya didn't query the mixed message from them?

If the application was to be included in the parade, and ya got that answer, then you're obviously dealing with an incompetent goose, and not necessarily a "group" as such. Sometimes it's just a matter of one idiot's arbitrary decision, which others in the group who may have seniority wouldn't agree with with. I wouldn't assume anything, till I found out.

 

[Antagone]

What was the application for, exactly? If it was to be part of the parade, is there some reason why ya didn't query the mixed message from them?

If the application was to be included in the parade, and ya got that answer, then you're obviously dealing with an incompetent goose, and not necessarily a "group" as such. Sometimes it's just a matter of one idiot's arbitrary decision, which others in the group who may have seniority wouldn't agree with with. I wouldn't assume anything, till I found out.

I was just coming back to explain a bit more since I realise I didn't give enough background in my original post.

Back in May we discussed the possibility of taking part in the parade and I asked if anyone would be interested before making the application. When no reply one way or another ever came back I posted that it didn't look as if we were going to be accepted and the thread went off-topic onto another discussion because we had a couple of new members who were asking questions about other things.

Now the parade is a public event and some Anons were going to be attending as spectators and not participants so it was suggested they could hand out a few fliers to the crowd if they wanted. We never discussed trying to gatecrash the parade itself or interfere in any way because it simply wasn't on the agenda.

That's why I'm puzzled, and quite angry, at the email I received the day before the parade basically telling us to stay away from a public event and why I'm getting a bit tinfoily.

 

[byte301]

I doubt that very much. Pride is all about gays having PRIDE in themselves. It is not a forum for the enemies of something else entirely. I think the Belfast Pride folk have made a very wise decision with regard your application.

Go to the parade & have fun, but do it in a spirit of appreciation for the gays in your life, not out of some sort of animosity for the church of L.Ron Hubbard. There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.


Mark A. Baker

Did you even read Antagone's response to the gay pride organizers?