Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

Gib

Crusader
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

Latest update.

In short, scientology want to send out a letter to possible candidates from MIKE ELLIS (IJC) asking them if they would participate.
OMFG.

I suppose the idea that it comes from him is supposed to stop people immediately ringing OSA (which of course they will) so they don't get into legal trouble though IMO there is no way they wouldn't be 'briefed' anyway, no way. "Meet me at this street at midnight and I'll brief you". Oh yes, that happens. This is so totally crazy I can imagine the frenzy it is creating to try and find a way to "handle" this terrible emergency. The bolded sentence below is telling them what to say per policy! The letter is giving scientologists protection from their own organisation's other policies!! I really hope the Judge understands the complexities of this. Also the fact that NO scientologist "in good standing" is EVER going to do anything other than what they are told and expected to do - follow policy.



From the motion:



To see the proposed letter: http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/03/sc...ge-calling-our-members-directly-are-you-nuts/

I know this is subtle, and meant to be by Hubbard and DM/COS/Lawyers.

follow policy?

If you ask me that is brainwashing, or creating Ronbots. LOL (hey, at OT8 you get to find out who you are not, and the next level you get find out who you are, or some such carrot on a stick BS, LOL)

No independent thoughts allowed, just follow policy or "what would Ron do". LOL

But, anyways, didn't the lawyer on Leah Remini latest episode state that the way he won lawsuits was to separate religion from 1st Amendment rights or something like that.

This latest rhetorical appeal by Wally Pope is trying to get religion involved whereas the lawsuit is about fraud of money and not religious beliefs.

I hope the Judge sees thru this, for rhetoric is not to be considered in a court case.

http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4424&context=uclrev

I do believe this fellow has figured it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMoSsuRVW8
 
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ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.
WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY?

Scientology is a very precise science (over a span of 65 years) of using members money extorted and manipulated out of them...to pay scum bag attorney's like Monique Yingling - hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS - to put together legal dox members sign so $cientrickery can keep all of the money and you can't do ANYTHING ABOUT IT. They are documents that SUPPRESS its members. There is no Confronting and Shattering either - you are fucked if you sign them. The ignorant and uneducated (typically young) staff members will LIE to the victim to get them to sign it. "If it is not in writing - it is not true"....so there you go. They have to get a stat - you routed on to the course or auditing.

You pay up front. Money is deemed "donation". When I asked why the money was deemed a donation for "future services" - I was told by the 17 year old staff member - that "we are a church and the IRS wants us to call it a donation" :ohmy:

Then you do the routing form. You trust - you are in a CHURCH for Xenu's sake (trust is at the top o the tone scale :whistling:)

They gloss over the legal dox spewing stories about THE PSYCH'S infiltrating Org's and sending crazy people in that did services and then went CRAZY....:eyeroll:

You believe the shore stories because you don't expect A FUCKING CHURCH TO LIE!

THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY. THAT IS HOW THEY KEEP YOUR MONEY and take away all of your rights - with your agreement through manipulation and deception. So easy to prove - I can't believe no one has challenged this in court.

When my friends asked for a refund - the $cientology attorney cited that they did not claim "deceit and manipulation and fraud" - therefore - were not entitled to getting it back.

If you want a refund - you must be willing to discuss the deceit and fraud with the cock roach attorneys.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY?

Scientology is a very precise science (over a span of 65 years) of using members money extorted and manipulated out of them...to pay scum bag attorney's like Monique Yingling - hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS - to put together legal dox members sign so $cientrickery can keep all of the money and you can't do ANYTHING ABOUT IT. They are documents that SUPPRESS its members. There is no Confronting and Shattering either - you are fucked if you sign them. The ignorant and uneducated (typically young) staff members will LIE to the victim to get them to sign it. "If it is not in writing - it is not true"....so there you go. They have to get a stat - you routed on to the course or auditing.

You pay up front. Money is deemed "donation". When I asked why the money was deemed a donation for "future services" - I was told by the 17 year old staff member - that "we are a church and the IRS wants us to call it a donation" :ohmy:

Then you do the routing form. You trust - you are in a CHURCH for Xenu's sake (trust is at the top o the tone scale :whistling:)

They gloss over the legal dox spewing stories about THE PSYCH'S infiltrating Org's and sending crazy people in that did services and then went CRAZY....:eyeroll:

You believe the shore stories because you don't expect A FUCKING CHURCH TO LIE!

THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY. THAT IS HOW THEY KEEP YOUR MONEY and take away all of your rights - with your agreement through manipulation and deception. So easy to prove - I can't believe no one has challenged this in court.

When my friends asked for a refund - the $cientology attorney cited that they did not claim "deceit and manipulation and fraud" - therefore - were not entitled to getting it back.

If you want a refund - you must be willing to discuss the deceit and fraud with the cock roach attorneys.

Until the CoS produces just one Clear or just one OT (as described and promised by Hubbard) then Scientology IS a fraud! :yes:
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.

Totally agreed.
IJC is most likely briefing a few attention seekers as we read this.
Wankers!
I hope this Judge is smart about what he is doing.
 
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

Totally agreed.
IJC is most likely briefing a few attention seekers as we read this.
Wankers!
I hope this Judge is smart about what he is doing.

But, anyways, didn't the lawyer on Leah Remini latest episode state that the way he won lawsuits was to separate religion from 1st Amendment rights or something like that.

This latest rhetorical appeal by Wally Pope is trying to get religion involved whereas the lawsuit is about fraud of money and not religious beliefs.

I hope the Judge sees thru this, for rhetoric is not to be considered in a court case.

I wonder why the lawyers didn't bring up that the contracts are one sided and unenforceable. Methinks this case is but one of many he has to hear, and he rules on what he is presented with, and has not researched Scientology to the point of understanding more fully what they are about. So he keeps expecting them to play by the rules, such as following a normal arbitration procedure, not fully cognizant Scientology doesn't ever play by the rules unless it benefits them.

Mimsey
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

Tony Ortega has the letter the Judge is sending to the 500 potential arbitrators, 20 at a time.

This is going to drag on forever. Most of the 500 have probably been briefed to refuse and the ones who will accept will already be fully coached to within an inch of their lives. IMO. There is no way they will ever, ever, ever find for the Garcias, I wish people understood that. Because I am basically an optimist I can only hope the Judge is just pushing to see what happens.

We have the letter Scientologists are receiving from a federal judge!

Former church members, you tell us: How are current members going to react to getting this letter? What are the odds that the judge can put together a panel relatively quickly?

Whittemore has scheduled a hearing for August 21, so it appears he’s pretty confident that he’ll get the job done, and quickly.

Should he be?

Here’s the document…

http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/30/we...tologists-are-receiving-from-a-federal-judge/
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

Tony Ortega has the letter the Judge is sending to the 500 potential arbitrators, 20 at a time.

This is going to drag on forever. Most of the 500 have probably been briefed to refuse and the ones who will accept will already be fully coached to within an inch of their lives. IMO. There is no way they will ever, ever, ever find for the Garcias, I wish people understood that. Because I am basically an optimist I can only hope the Judge is just pushing to see what happens.



http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/30/we...tologists-are-receiving-from-a-federal-judge/

Given what's known about the CoS you may be right in what you say here. However, that could backfire in a spectacular fashion for CoS. We're talking about a nuclear-tipped foot bullet here.

Check out this exchange from the comments section at the Bunker from 2 days ago after the Judge informed CoS attorneys that "arbitration is imminent":

TX Lawyer2 days ago
When I see those kinds of "Tell your client . . ." warnings, it's usually a veiled threat that it would be in their best interests to make the case settle. That footnote is pretty telling too. It's like: These are your stupid rules, and we're going to go through with this farce whether you like it or not because you insisted on it, you schmucks.

And remember, if this whole arbitration thing goes up in flames, the judge gets to take the case right back into his courtroom for a proper trial.


  • Juicer77 TX Lawyer2 days ago
  • Thanks, TX.Devil's advocate here: what if the arbitration panel finds that, nope, the Garcias are SOL and don't deserve a refund? Then arbitration is complete and the good Judge is satisfied and no one ever gets a refund. Right?
    • TX Lawyer Juicer772 days ago
    • That depends on how the arbitration plays out. Under the Federal Arbitration Act, a court can set aside an arbitration award on four grounds that are very narrow, but which seem highly likely to occur in the context of Scientology:

      (1) where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;

      (2) where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators, or either of them;

      (3) where the arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient cause shown, or in refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy; or of any other misbehavior by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced; or

      (4) where the arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award upon the subject matter submitted was not made.
 
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

I am surprised that they sent out only 20. I mean that's an awfully small number to come out of 500. If he has any inkling of how Scientologists think he would probably need to send out 100 at a clip to get any kind of meaningful response. Oh well, he will learn eventually I guess.

By the way Texas lawyer over on Tony's blog had an interesting comment, that maybe he is setting up Scientology to fail. That would be an interesting ploy for a judge, huh?

If Scientology mucks up the arbitration by tainting the arbitrators pool then he could rule that it's arbitration is invalid and move straight into the trial. A ruling like that would set a precedent that could be used against Scientology in future cases and eliminate the arbitration catch 22 completely.
Mimsey
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

I am surprised that they sent out only 20. I mean that's an awfully small number to come out of 500. If he has any inkling of how Scientologists think he would probably need to send out 100 at a clip to get any kind of meaningful response. Oh well, he will learn eventually I guess.

By the way Texas lawyer over on Tony's blog had an interesting comment, that maybe he is setting up Scientology to fail. That would be an interesting ploy for a judge, huh?

If Scientology mucks up the arbitration by tainting the arbitrators pool then he could rule that it's arbitration is invalid and move straight into the trial. A ruling like that would set a precedent that could be used against Scientology in future cases and eliminate the arbitration catch 22 completely.
Mimsey

I think that Hubbard and Miscavige have set up Scientology to fail. It's just a matter of time.

If the judge helps them along then more power to him.

I imagine he's crystal clear on the Scientology "justice system" being a fraud which is intended to treat the Garcia's and others in an unjust fashion. Hopefully he can do something from his position to really help the Garcias.

I hope someone has made him aware of the scientology playbook in these types of situations. He needs to take extra security precautions to protect his pets, his trash (from being taken by someone hired by OSA), as well as other security concerns.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Breaking News ~~Appeal to the Federal Judge on Taliban Scientology shenanigans
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...st-palm-lawyer-claims/scrn3osyk1d9ZzEVpg8P4N/
Luis Garcia donated a Million dollars towards Orange County Ideal org. Then they dis-invited him from Grand opening, removed his name from donors plaquen and Declared him a Suppressive Person.
BUT
Kept all of the MILLION dollar donation..
Image: Luis and his Lawyer Ted Babbit, Both Participants of the AFTERMATH

LuisGarciaandLawyer.png
 
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Check sheet for GAT2 arbitration KSW 1-10:

1) Disallow defendant's attorney
2) Disallow defendant's witnesses or documents
3) Disallow court reporter
4) Only allowed video taping by OSA
5) Brief the panel in opposition of the court orders for some 3 hours
6)Throw out all charges, except for a small dog bone
7) Congratulate selves for shattering suppression
8) 3 Cheers for LRH
9) Give thanks to COB for restoring the lost arbitration tech to full implementation
10) Resume postulation of our glorious, unenturbulated future from the Manor Hotel restaurant table on the front porch of infinity, while sipping Cal Mag flavored Kool-aid.

Mimsey.
 
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Tony has the court documents submitted by the Garcia's which are interesting to read. On one hand you have the Garcia's wanting to do an arbitration about the merits of their fraud case and on the other, you have Ellis who's marching orders are to prevent the arbitrators from seeing or hearing any entheta.

So what did they arbitrate if not the fraud? Whether the CVB routing form (refund form) was properly done - which the church attorneys told the court had no bearing in the arbitration.

And the irony being the lead arbitrator Sokoloff declaring it wasn't a kangaroo court? :hysterical:

I wonder what Judge Whittemore has to say about that? I hope he orders the arbitrators to be deposed to find out what they have to say and what was said and done on day one, which was held behind closed doors out of ear shot of the Garcias. That will really make for fun reading.

Mimsey
 
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Jenyfurrr

Patron
Tony has the court documents submitted by the Garcia's which are interesting to read. On one hand you have the Garcia's wanting to do an arbitration about the merits of their fraud case and on the other, you have Ellis who's marching orders are to prevent the arbitrators from seeing or hearing any entheta.

So what did they arbitrate if not the fraud? Whether the CVB routing form (refund form) was properly done - which the church attorneys told the court had no bearing in the arbitration.

And the irony being the lead arbitrator Sokoloff declaring it wasn't a kangaroo court? :hysterical:

I wonder what Judge Whittemore has to say about that? I hope he orders the arbitrators to be deposed to find out what they have to say and what was said and done on day one, which was held behind closed doors out of ear shot of the Garcias. That will really make for fun reading.

Mimsey

I have to say I’d assumed after the arbitration went south then we didn’t hear much other than the Garcia family giving sound bites on the ridiculousness (pretty ballsy of co$ to operate like that, knowing this could be reviewed by a judge eventually!) the Aftermath episode & then silence.

I have to say I’m immensely happy (selfishly of course, since I can’t fathom the energy & financial drain on the Garcia’s!) they’re choosing to pursue this. I do believe this is what it takes - someone who has the funds & willingness to see it through (while not judging those that don’t) like we see happening here.

I’m rooting for Luis & his wife & hope that if public PR support is needed, we hear that, because we here in SoCal can “march” & rally just as well as any SciBots in support of REAL justice finally being done! This would open serious floodgates for potentially so many others who’ve been put through similar situations.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Yes, I think much of the reason the church fights these cases is to prevent legal precedents being set. They are between a rock and a hard place with it.

If the Garcias won, it would create a potential financial nightmare for the CofS.
 

Jenyfurrr

Patron
Totally agree about them fighting so hard to prevent setting a precedent. That’s why it was so shocking to read the Garcia’s latest filing on how it went down!

I mean I knew there was no way co$ wouldn’t meddle with it, but assumed they’d at least try to make it look legitimate. But it literally WAS a kangaroo court proceeding as stated in the docs with no attempt whatsoever to make it seem impartial. Based on how the judge has ruled previously (& making it clear to co$ that he’s unwilling to play their games) I can’t wait to see how he responds to this new filing.

It seems he’s wise to the co$ legal games and ensured he wouldn’t get reversed on appeal so he just let them screw themselves by being obvious. But I must say I’m still gobsmacked at just how overt they were!

Go Garcia’s!!!
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
When a person is declared the declare states that all certificates are cancelled and the person's only contact with the CoS is the International Justice Chief.

The judge should have said that this, by implication, should also mean that all agreements to submit to CoS arbitration are also cancelled and therefore the law of the land will apply.

This is the common sense solution but maybe the judge was not legally allowed to do it.
 

Jenyfurrr

Patron
When a person is declared the declare states that all certificates are cancelled and the person's only contact with the CoS is the International Justice Chief.

The judge should have said that this, by implication, should also mean that all agreements to submit to CoS arbitration are also cancelled and therefore the law of the land will apply.

This is the common sense solution but maybe the judge was not legally allowed to do it.
Agree 100%!... BUT I assume since that’s an “ecclesiastical” decision (my arse... these guys are about as “churchy” as Amway or any other well-disguised pyramid scheme!!!) even if that was specifically said, that technically requires law becoming involved in religious doctrine/decisions. So my assumption & hope is that this was the judge extending the foot of rope with which to hang themselves.

I’m also guessing here, but thinking they chose to “hat” the arbitrator panel (since that’s a scio term) and other internal garbledygook terms they used so that if they are questioned on why it was so ridiculously slanted, they’ll attempt to invoke the “this is a religious process” defense. BUT they also specifically ignored/dishonored specific tenets they committed to honor in court while violating about every rule pertaining to arbitration!

Their bad for calling it arbitration (which has rules) and demonstrating such ego that they couldn’t resist flouting that they feel co$ & their “religious” process is untouchable. Eventually it will be this egotism that undoes them financially, in a large way. Hopefully this time will be the case that does it!

Beyond that, kudos to the Garcia’s for their willingness to spend money fighting this to potentially help others & Atty Ted Babbitt for being willing to see it through. Yes, he’s being paid, but there’s PR risk & travel involved that other attorneys wouldn’t touch. For those reasons alone, my respect for them all continues to grow!
(Edited for spelling)
 
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