Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
So how does one explain this: Why would any OT 8 then go on to do their L's if it's all dub in? Not invalin', just askin' Mimsey
stressing out on solo nots
- Thread starter Mimsey Borogrove
- Start date
IMMORTAL
Patron Meritorious
EXACTLY! I never understood that either.
Well actually, I did come up with a couple of answers to that. 1) Maybe they were still trying to see if they could get the gains they were expecting on the Ls that weren't gotten elsewhere? And 2) Maybe they needed to show someone/others that they were still drinking the koolaid? 3) Maybe the "it's all dubbed in" part didn't bother them?
I don't know. Just some ideas I had about it.
Last edited:
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
This comment is from Forever Lurker on Marty's site. :confused2:
Albeit an astronomically expensive and lengthy form of creative processing or creative visualization.
I did the Clearing Course . . . you know, old school style. I’ve never doubted the benefit I got (something really good happened at the end), but in recent years I’ve wondered if it was actually based on a “real incident” or not. A construct perhaps, as you put it. I’ve concluded this: it maybe doesn’t matter.
If the incident portrayed is real . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially “running it out.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
If the incident portrayed is not real, or as you put it a “construct” of one man . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially doing a form of early 50′s mock up processing or “creative processing.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
Old OT IV was sort of a reprise. Those who have done it will know what I mean.
So viewing it that way, it sorta doesn’t matter as long as the person benefited from it. I’ve stopped worrying either way. It did a lasting good for me and that’s all I really care about. Make sense?
What is real and actual . . . gets “run out.”
What is not real and not actual . . . takes on more of a form of creative processing (early 50′s) . . . or could even loosely be compared to “creative visualization” in other practices, but with more of a format or series of steps.
Just my two cents . . . since you brought up constructs.
If the incident portrayed is real . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially “running it out.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
If the incident portrayed is not real, or as you put it a “construct” of one man . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially doing a form of early 50′s mock up processing or “creative processing.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
Old OT IV was sort of a reprise. Those who have done it will know what I mean.
So viewing it that way, it sorta doesn’t matter as long as the person benefited from it. I’ve stopped worrying either way. It did a lasting good for me and that’s all I really care about. Make sense?
What is real and actual . . . gets “run out.”
What is not real and not actual . . . takes on more of a form of creative processing (early 50′s) . . . or could even loosely be compared to “creative visualization” in other practices, but with more of a format or series of steps.
Just my two cents . . . since you brought up constructs.
Albeit an astronomically expensive and lengthy form of creative processing or creative visualization.
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
For the same reason they would strap a camera to their head and throw on a 'Squirrel Busters' shirt.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
My wife, friends and family all knew that they needed to allow 2 weeks from whenever I returned from Flag until I was truly myself again. I'd spend the first 2 weeks home intensively auditing out the Flag Experience!
There's no Release experience quite like taking off from Tampa Airport, heading for home!
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Different folks, different takes on it!
Arthur Dent
Silver Meritorious Patron
I hit the movies!Lol, me too, Arthur. I always did my laundry on Friday nights while everyone else was at Graduation. I got away with it by creating an aura of "I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, doing exactly what I'm supposed to do."
Happy for you NOT OK!!!! Just thought I'd jump in here and remind you that you still owe me dinner!
Just saying hi and dont' want you to forget! Don't respond; just PM, if anything. No plans soon, but you never know! Let me restimulate a little something: :wink2: When you got good and tired of eating at the
Sandcastle day after day . . . or ran a little short of pocket money . . . well, you always
had Checkers where you and your twin could manage to chow down during the dinner
break.
.............
....
.....Pass the Alka Seltzer, please.
.......Currently shuttered (fortunately), AFAIK.
Thank God, I only did that once! How awful! I heard a lot of people ate there frequently. Barf!
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
My answer to you Mimsey would be "Now that you have cognited you were mocking up your own bank and all the BTs and Clusters we will address you as an immortal being on the Ls".
Then when your done with the Ls there is always super power and of course more objectives and Gag II and it will never end. When Hubbard hisself was dying, he was still swatting at BTs.
Scientology is like a fucking hamster wheel and you will never get to the end of it until you quit agreeing with it and leave.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
I ate there once... once!
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
If you don't achieve the Toilet Paper EP* the first time you walk into an org bathroom, then you may be in for a long ride
Toilet Paper EP* When you ask yourself 'how the fuck is this organization going to clear the planet when they can't even keep their bathrooms stocked with toilet paper.'
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you Immortal for your post. I was laughing at the way you told your story and not at you. I have had a lot of laughs regarding my own never ending journey as well. No one has ever gotten the EP that Hubbard claimed could be obtained by going Clear and OT. Not one. Hubbard hisself did not have any of these fantastic abilities he was promoting. It was all in his imagination. He told us the stories and we believed in him much like Reed Slatkins investors believed in what Reed told them.
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Me too. I also hit some of the other local restaurants - they were always ghost towns. How they survived was beyond me. When I first was at Flag I stayed at the HOC (Heart of Clearwater - later renamed the Yachtman) and they had stoves and fridges - so I went to the Pubix (yeah - I later realized it was the Publix) and lived on hot dogs and spaghetti. It was quick and cheep - what else could I cook in a half an hour and make it back for roll call?I ate there once... once!
Mimsey
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
What was the name of that Cajun Kitchen joint just across the park?
I liked their chicken, rice, beans and stuff.
I loved the Greek Restaurant across from the Yachtsman.
I ate breakfast there every day and often went there for dinner.
I liked their chicken, rice, beans and stuff.
I loved the Greek Restaurant across from the Yachtsman.
I ate breakfast there every day and often went there for dinner.
CO2
Patron Meritorious
This comment is from Forever Lurker on Marty's site. :confused2:
I did the Clearing Course . . . you know, old school style. I’ve never doubted the benefit I got (something really good happened at the end), but in recent years I’ve wondered if it was actually based on a “real incident” or not. A construct perhaps, as you put it. I’ve concluded this: it maybe doesn’t matter.
If the incident portrayed is real . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially “running it out.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
If the incident portrayed is not real, or as you put it a “construct” of one man . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially doing a form of early 50′s mock up processing or “creative processing.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
Old OT IV was sort of a reprise. Those who have done it will know what I mean.
So viewing it that way, it sorta doesn’t matter as long as the person benefited from it. I’ve stopped worrying either way. It did a lasting good for me and that’s all I really care about. Make sense?
What is real and actual . . . gets “run out.”
What is not real and not actual . . . takes on more of a form of creative processing (early 50′s) . . . or could even loosely be compared to “creative visualization” in other practices, but with more of a format or series of steps.
Just my two cents . . . since you brought up constructs.
Albeit an astronomically expensive and lengthy form of creative processing or creative visualization.
what incident?
it was a bunch of dichotomies, and OT 2 was where they got reprised, not OT 4
In 1968-1976, I spent no more than $4K on grades, power, solo, Clear-OT3, and the HSDC, and the shsbc, and then I left.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Veda
Sponsor
The Clearing Course, OT 2, and OT 3 are about implants. On (old) OT 4, the person "mocks up" the (by then "erased") Clearing Course implant content, making the Tone Arm go up (mass), and then "unmocks," making the Tone Arm go down (blown mass). This protects one from future implanting, supposedly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVqN4ivQ_TM&feature=player_embedded
Video from the 1968 confidential 'Class 8' course.
There's a "explanation," by Hubbard, of the Clearing Course Implants, OT 2 Implants, and OT 3 implants on 5:10 to 6:10 of this video.
Hubbard told Scientologists their past, the content of which he was the authoritative source. He virtually owned Scientologists by giving them their future ("Your next endless trillions"), and further owned them by giving them their past.
When Hubbard had his 2nd mental and emotional breakdown, after the 1977 FBI raids, he "bounced back" by regressing to the time before he knew Mary Sue (who was then on her way to federal prison), and, re-emphasized Dianetics, which, for the first time since May 1950, once again - presto! - "made Clears." He also returned to his primary activity, pre-Mary Sue, and started writing Science Fiction novels, even though he had emphasized, in the early 1970s, that he did not want to be identified as a Science Fiction writer and Scientology was to downplay that aspect of his past.
At the level of Dianetics, post 1978, the person is told he can "go Clear" on Dianetics, and - presto! again - Scientologists did, happily placing themselves in the mental box called "Clear." On Dianetics a person is expected to "go back track" into "past lives," and whatever the person comes up with is "run." Usually the person is delighted with having "run" a "past life," etc., and the auditor is impressed with the way in which the e-meter responded - pretty much as it should have - and everyone is satisfied. Unfortunately, the items run and "erased" in Dianetics usually return - or never actually go away - and the person finds himself addressing them again on such actions as NOTs.
Not uncommonly, a new Scientologist first encounters "his past" when reading the 1952 book 'History of Man', originally titled 'What to Audit':
"This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years."
From old timer John Sanborn, speaking of the 1950s:
"In a Phoenix Congress... he talked about spooky whole track stuff. He had a floodlight on the floor in front of this little platform shining up, because that makes you look ghouly. And his face looked really weird and outer space and really crazy... and he talked weird... I think he was trying to drive people a little bit wacko so they'd fall into his hand a little bit."
A small sampling of Hubbardian oobleck:
3) From the lecture "Auditing Comm Cycles" 06 Aug 1963:
"Now, I'll give you an idea - an idea of this. For instance, I know where I was and who I was, and know with good certainty, who I was and where I was in the last eighty trillion years. See, I know that; that's not much of an argument with me. But the small details of that are liable to go fritter-fritter here and there. You know, what did I have for breakfast two trillion years ago? No. Nix, man. Nah. Did I even eat, you see? That sort of thing is getting pretty dim."
From OT 2:
"Many persons experience unreality at the start of [whole track implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."
This is an excerpt from one of the implants on OT 2. (I copied it from the materials to the Net, originally, because it's the one OT 2 implant that does not have the term "GPM" in it, so it wouldn't be necessary to explain what "GPM," in this case, "implant GPM," meant.) It's a typical implant description. The dates, Hubbard later decided, are "implant dates," with the actual date being 75 million years ago. The "implant date" is nonetheless still important, so the theory goes, as that must be "duplicated" for the "as-isness" to occur, and the "charge to blow." Unfortunately, along with the "charge," the person's critical faculties on the topic of Hubbard and Scientology are being "blown" also.
Anyway, the eyes of the impressionable OT 2 solo auditor would be uncritically - with TRs in - reading, while holding the electrodes of his e-meter:
"They are implant incidents...
"Trillions, 20,095.
"Hot Cold.
"This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...
"Dance Mob.
"Trillions, 18,992.
"This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."
And a little more:
"230 trillions.
"This seeks to install...
"Implanter X... Target X," etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.
He would then usually see his meter react in some fashion, much to his surprise and delight.
He would also have "wins" and "case gain," which, ultimately, usually don't amount to very much, but do leave him with the memory of having had experiences of elation related to the "tech." For some people this is enough to leave them satisfied, even though they are, ultimately, still "homo saps" and have not become "OT," which is what they were promised when they decided to trustingly open wide their minds to "Hubbard Guidance."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVqN4ivQ_TM&feature=player_embedded
Video from the 1968 confidential 'Class 8' course.
There's a "explanation," by Hubbard, of the Clearing Course Implants, OT 2 Implants, and OT 3 implants on 5:10 to 6:10 of this video.
__________
Hubbard told Scientologists their past, the content of which he was the authoritative source. He virtually owned Scientologists by giving them their future ("Your next endless trillions"), and further owned them by giving them their past.
When Hubbard had his 2nd mental and emotional breakdown, after the 1977 FBI raids, he "bounced back" by regressing to the time before he knew Mary Sue (who was then on her way to federal prison), and, re-emphasized Dianetics, which, for the first time since May 1950, once again - presto! - "made Clears." He also returned to his primary activity, pre-Mary Sue, and started writing Science Fiction novels, even though he had emphasized, in the early 1970s, that he did not want to be identified as a Science Fiction writer and Scientology was to downplay that aspect of his past.
At the level of Dianetics, post 1978, the person is told he can "go Clear" on Dianetics, and - presto! again - Scientologists did, happily placing themselves in the mental box called "Clear." On Dianetics a person is expected to "go back track" into "past lives," and whatever the person comes up with is "run." Usually the person is delighted with having "run" a "past life," etc., and the auditor is impressed with the way in which the e-meter responded - pretty much as it should have - and everyone is satisfied. Unfortunately, the items run and "erased" in Dianetics usually return - or never actually go away - and the person finds himself addressing them again on such actions as NOTs.
Not uncommonly, a new Scientologist first encounters "his past" when reading the 1952 book 'History of Man', originally titled 'What to Audit':
"This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years."
__________
From old timer John Sanborn, speaking of the 1950s:
"In a Phoenix Congress... he talked about spooky whole track stuff. He had a floodlight on the floor in front of this little platform shining up, because that makes you look ghouly. And his face looked really weird and outer space and really crazy... and he talked weird... I think he was trying to drive people a little bit wacko so they'd fall into his hand a little bit."
___________
A small sampling of Hubbardian oobleck:
3) From the lecture "Auditing Comm Cycles" 06 Aug 1963:
"Now, I'll give you an idea - an idea of this. For instance, I know where I was and who I was, and know with good certainty, who I was and where I was in the last eighty trillion years. See, I know that; that's not much of an argument with me. But the small details of that are liable to go fritter-fritter here and there. You know, what did I have for breakfast two trillion years ago? No. Nix, man. Nah. Did I even eat, you see? That sort of thing is getting pretty dim."
___________
From OT 2:
"Many persons experience unreality at the start of [whole track implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."
__________
This is an excerpt from one of the implants on OT 2. (I copied it from the materials to the Net, originally, because it's the one OT 2 implant that does not have the term "GPM" in it, so it wouldn't be necessary to explain what "GPM," in this case, "implant GPM," meant.) It's a typical implant description. The dates, Hubbard later decided, are "implant dates," with the actual date being 75 million years ago. The "implant date" is nonetheless still important, so the theory goes, as that must be "duplicated" for the "as-isness" to occur, and the "charge to blow." Unfortunately, along with the "charge," the person's critical faculties on the topic of Hubbard and Scientology are being "blown" also.
Anyway, the eyes of the impressionable OT 2 solo auditor would be uncritically - with TRs in - reading, while holding the electrodes of his e-meter:
"They are implant incidents...
"Trillions, 20,095.
"Hot Cold.
"This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...
"Dance Mob.
"Trillions, 18,992.
"This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."
And a little more:
"230 trillions.
"This seeks to install...
"Implanter X... Target X," etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.
He would then usually see his meter react in some fashion, much to his surprise and delight.
He would also have "wins" and "case gain," which, ultimately, usually don't amount to very much, but do leave him with the memory of having had experiences of elation related to the "tech." For some people this is enough to leave them satisfied, even though they are, ultimately, still "homo saps" and have not become "OT," which is what they were promised when they decided to trustingly open wide their minds to "Hubbard Guidance."
Terril park
Sponsor
L's are about dealing with one's own evil intentions. Dosn't really matter if they are dubbed in, as in say dramatizing an SP valence, or really your own. They'll screw you up.
Terril park
Sponsor
This comment is from Forever Lurker on Marty's site. :confused2:
I did the Clearing Course . . . you know, old school style. I’ve never doubted the benefit I got (something really good happened at the end), but in recent years I’ve wondered if it was actually based on a “real incident” or not. A construct perhaps, as you put it. I’ve concluded this: it maybe doesn’t matter.
If the incident portrayed is real . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially “running it out.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
If the incident portrayed is not real, or as you put it a “construct” of one man . . . then by doing the steps of the level we are essentially doing a form of early 50′s mock up processing or “creative processing.” And poof, at one point the Clear EP, an EP happens.
Old OT IV was sort of a reprise. Those who have done it will know what I mean.
So viewing it that way, it sorta doesn’t matter as long as the person benefited from it. I’ve stopped worrying either way. It did a lasting good for me and that’s all I really care about. Make sense?
What is real and actual . . . gets “run out.”
What is not real and not actual . . . takes on more of a form of creative processing (early 50′s) . . . or could even loosely be compared to “creative visualization” in other practices, but with more of a format or series of steps.
Just my two cents . . . since you brought up constructs.
Albeit an astronomically expensive and lengthy form of creative processing or creative visualization.
I've come to increasingly think much of the gains were like those of creative processing. They are some of the most powerful processes known but are
limited in effect. But we are magical and creative and maybe figure out a way to usefully do this. Then they become akin to OT processes. We create, and counter create. Mental, spiritual exercises to head in the direction of where we want to go.
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