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The Worst Thing You Can Do To Yourself As an Ex-Scientologist

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Alanzo, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I could understand it if you compared leaving Scientology with a book club or another similar organization. I mean, a book club with all the side dishes Scientology has to offer.

    I could understand it if you compared leaving Scientology, as a 2nd gen, with leaving that same book club, if the club also forced parents to have their kids be a part of it.


    Just "leaving" something or someone under mental duress isn't really enough in my opinion. A Mafia organization would be a more understandable comparison then a failed Marriage.
     
    Type4_PTS, Free to shine and Lurker5 like this.
  2. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I've often asked myself "what are the factual, objective non-hysterical english language words that describes leaving scientology?

    I have found that experiencing a "catastrophic loss of faith" is the english I think that does it.

    Once it's been described that way, you can see other similar human experiences that you can use for comparison.

    I found that doing this gave me perspective and helped to ground me. It ratcheted down the hysteria. It made me feel less "special" and alienated from humanity. It also opened me up to a lot of literature and stories from others who have experienced a catastrophic loss of faith in other areas.
     
    Glenda and Bill like this.
  3. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    That's fair enough, you base the narrative and the language you are building up to fit what happened to you.

    A catastrophic loss of faith is a part of what happened to me, but it wouldn't be right to call it catastrophic since it happened over the course of eight years. It is also not the full picture since for me it also included feelings of being betrayed, codependency and rage.

    Also, I'm not sure it would be applicable on everyone else and what happened to them. But for some, definitively yes.

    Do you see my point?
     
  4. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Well when you look into it, and start seeking out other stories and studies on peoples' loss of faith, you find those feeling you listed are all part of it.

    For everyone.

    No matter the thing they lost faith in.
     
  5. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Not really, like I said, I think you are making this waaay to simple. Especially when it comes to the kids of Scientology.

    Not that I want to hurt anyone that had kids in Scientology, but what the fuck.

    Emotional hurt, mental health, you kinda have to look at every individual case, investigate, then start grouping into similarities. It's not a very simple thing to do and I'm pretty sure no such study exists on leaving Scientology, if you know one, please send me a ling in a message. I'm not talking any mumbo jumbo now, academic or medical studies only please.
     
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    But here you are saying again that leaving Scientology is a SPECIAL CASE.

    In some ways, it is. But in many way more fundamental ways, it's not. It is incredibly valuable to be informed by those similarities to any other loss of faith TOO.
     
  7. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Well, informed shimformed.

    Ok so we both agree that Scientology is a special case, and in some cases it's similar to other losses of faith, but Marriage is not a faith. Kids in the book club is neither, well It can be I suppose.

    The important thing to remember kids, is that I was right and Alanzo was left!

    In all seriousness though, defining what it is to leave a cult should just be defined as "leaving a cult" And then be given a broad spectrum of what could happen to the individual(s) with possible treatments, results and what not tied to it.

    I've been writing all day so I kinda can't function in my brain this late. Please forgive me but I think/hope you understand my point and that I was right and you were not.
     
  8. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Before I forget, I really wanted to comment on this as well.

    In essence, you are saying that the most common words describing leaving Scientology are hysterical?

    I see no benefit for anyone to label the use of words as "blowing" or what terms you mean, as hysterical, it lays a slight sensation of blame on the victims of Scientology. Leaving Scientology for a lot of people is a trauma, witch I think you'll accept, so why defining someone as "hysterical?

    Is this another part of your narrative that remains undisclosed or did I miss something?
     
    Type4_PTS and Lurker5 like this.
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    LOL!

    I used to agree with you about the "leaving a cult" part as the dominant truth of the human experience of becoming an Ex-Scientologist. I don't any more.

    Leaving Scientology is fundamentally a matter of a loss of faith in an ideology which you used to make sense of the world. That ideology has collapsed on you. It's very similar to leaving the Catholic Church in that way. Or leaving Christianity to become an Atheist. It is the loss of one sense-making device for the adoption of another one.

    During the interim period between sense-making devices, you have no way to make sense of the world any more. You feel lost and without an identity, or any way of understanding things.

    Then you adopt a new sense making device, such as the anticult movement belief that you were "brainwashed" while in a "brainwashing cult". And you use that new sense-making device to re-define and re-interpret all your past experiences in Scientology, and as a Scientologist. Often these re-interpretations are over-the-top negative - in the worst possible way. And too often, much more truthful and constructive re-interpretations are hidden from you after you've picked up the anti-Scientology narrative to make sense of it.

    I am saying that by disputing these hysterical, pseudo-scientific beliefs of the anti cult movement, you can find much more grounded, and much more truthful, ways of interpreting your experiences in Scientology and making sense of your past as a Scientologist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  10. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    This I find interesting. A psychologist I worked with was an American. He'd worked in the US with war vets. Very experienced dude and very very funny. We talked about the similarities of what vets had gone through and what I was experiencing. It was extremely useful stuff. Stuff like arriving "home" and feeling very alienated from everyone. While there was an aspect of having been through an intense unique experience in scientology there were many cross-overs too with what a vet may go through when they return home. I really relate to people who've been to hell and arrived back in the village feeling utterly alienated. It takes time to adjust to a new normal. And as I see this some people really struggle with moving completely into a new normal range. Change can be very tricky for humans. Humans find comfort from the familiar and that doesn't just mean sweet lovely stuff. People can cling to the most God awful memories for the oddest of reasons. This is not to disregard trauma which can be very deep-seated and problematic.

    What happened during my scientology years had some unique aspects and also some similar aspects to other experiences possible in a life. I absolutely know that but it took time to wade through that and make sense of it. To open up and move away from what I call "the impact zone". The impact of what felt like such an isolating experience within a framework (scientology) which touts itself so hard as being "the only way". Mr. American Psychologist helped me shift all this around and begin to find a new normal and experience myself and life in new ways. What we talked about helped me unspecialise my scientology experience but also "honour" some of the uniqueness. I played with lots and lots of grey concepts.

    One of the other things that I found helpful and would quietly suggest to former scientology participants is reading memoirs, in particular of those folk that have left controlling groups. One of the big one's for me was Life and Death in Shanghai by Cheng Nien. She is such a calm writer and tells a story, which is heart-breaking, without shedding tears and anger all over the pages. What she describes is vile but she does it with dignity and grace. I loved this book. I hated this book. It opened up a new perspective for me. I recognised scientology-like methods in her account and said "holy shit!" a lot as I read.

    My view of all this is that every life, every story of how that life was lived, is unique. It also has some startling similarities to the experiences of others. Big grey.

    For Jonathan. One of the smartest funniest men I've had the pleasure of knowing. A gloriously mixed up American-kiwi that has given so much to so many. Thanks mate! :)
     
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  11. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Ok, so in essence you are saying people have left one cult to join another? I disagree. What I have seen is that persons who leave Scientology either discards everything wholesale due to the trauma incurred, or they don't. Overall a clear majority just gets out of it never to be heard of again. Look at the people who have been posting on ESMB, would you say all of them(or even a majority) share a specific set of ideas now, that can be branded as cultish?

    There are things that me and Type4 seem to agree on, for instance, or Enthetan too. But then there are so many things that completely sets us apart.

    We've evolved, "transcended" who we were and keep doing so, more so now, I believe, since we are no longer bound to one specific set of ideas. We can cherry pick what suits us as individuals.

    Like I wrote before, I think you simplify too much and are trying to do your best to make it easy for yourself. In some cases in such a way that it becomes an insult for others or inhibits your social skills with other people.

    On the same topic, do you think abandoning good social form and adopting a set of "someones gotta be the asshole" to be beneficial to yourself as an individual? Is that too a a part of your personal "sense making device"? Do you perceive that is is helping you after your Scientology trauma?
     
  12. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I absolutely never said anything like that.

    An ideology, a way of processing and explaining things in life, exists in mainstream society just as much as in a "cult" or subculture.

    Mainstream American society has the ideology of "The Founding Fathers" for instance. It's used to explain the birth of the nation, civil rights, democracy, a break with the European Divine Rights of Kings, etc. It's the mainstream American ideology. It's a way of making sense of the world. Part of the problem with America now-a-days, IMO, is that we've stopped teaching that ideology to newer generations of Americans.

    I am NOT saying anything like "The AntiScientology Cult".
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Totally agree this is vitally important and, once I'd discovered it, I really started to calm down and begin to grow from my own experiences and the lessons I'd learned from having been a Scientologist.

    I heard Chris Shelton say once in a video that "The RPF is the worst thing that a human being can experience."

    That's a direct quote.

    That is a lie, a complete loss of context and perspective, and a sign of an hystericalized mind that is a very common result from having picked up the anti-scientology ideology to do your thinking for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  14. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Am I not understanding you here then?

    That to me, whatever way you chose to re-brand it, sounds like a cult to me? Not trying to set you up or split hairs, but to me it sounds like we leave Scientology and then to fill the void we join another cult.
     
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    No.

    You move from the sub-culture of Scientology with its cultural values and modes of thinking about things, into the mainstream, with its cultural values and modes of thinking about things.

    For just one example among billions:

    Before: Psychs were the "cause of crime who invented evil on the whole track"

    To now in the mainstream culture: Psychs are the professionals who treat mental illness.

    Very different cultural values, modes of thinking and ways of making sense of the world.

    Different ideology.

    See?
     
  16. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Yeah no that makes sense to me too.

    I'm still right though.
     
    Alanzo likes this.
  17. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Are anti-Scientologists tribalist?
     
  18. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    You're grasping at straws with your bombastic terminology. LOL. Your crusade to discredit Ex's (and try to get people here to help you) is morally wrong. You're attempts to "handle" Ex's with an always attack never defend $cio-culty fair game mentality trying to neutralize their credibility is also morally wrong.
     
  19. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Cyclops Duck of the North - BEWARE

    Abraham Lincoln also said about Gettysburg "We cannot consecrate".

    That's a direct quote.
     
  20. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    You sound exactly like a Scientologist when he's been shown LRH's true biography.

    What happened to you, FBM?