"Blacks need Scientology and Nation of Islam to help resolve their conflicts."

[Enthetan]

Raise the minimum wage and ending labor exploitation. If the minimum wage kept up with inflation and executive pay raises, it would be $22 an hour. Think about that the next time 15 an hour sounds ridiculous.

Minimum wage is one major cause of unemployment. All it means is that if your production is not WORTH $15/hr, then you remain unemployed. It means employers will either only hire people with demonstrated work skills (like retired people), automate so as to be able to get the job done with fewer people, or go out of business.

The current trend is to automate. For example, fast-food places (where many teens get their first job experience), are switching to automated cashier panels:



and robotic burger makers

Meanwhile, you've all seen the trend in supermarkets towards self-service checkout.

One of the bigger sources of job-loss for young black men, has been their replacement by illegal aliens. But don't expect black voters to switch to voting for the guy most likely to handle the illegal alien issue.

ADDING: see Paul's "Robots taking over" thread for more details.

 

[Enthetan]

That's why empowerment is so important as I mentioned earlier. Educating people with effective tools to enable positive changes through their own actions. You and the people who like your posts seem more interested in shaming judgmental condemning punishment which is the opposite of empowerment.

Handing people tools they can use to improve their situation is a good thing.

It is necessary, though, to give them an incentive to USE those tools to improve their own condition.

 

[Enthetan]

JustSheila, please don't take this badly, but that has to be the most White post I've ever read on this board. Seriously, treating race like it's irrelevant to our modern world is a ridiculously privileged position to take. I know you meant it in a good way but... geeze. You're just burying your head to the realities of racial war in America. Of course you can afford to bury your head when it doesn't affect you personally.

I recall from my time in Scn, about how LRH went on and on about the vast network of powerful suppressives who were working ceaselessly to keep Scientology from succeeding. It kept us from thinking too much about other reasons why orgs weren't expanding, like maybe the admin and auditing technology was crap.

Talk of "racial war" and "white supremacists" just serve to keep blacks apathetic about being able to improve their own condition through their own personal efforts, and is a disservice to them.

 

[JustSheila]

JustSheila, please don't take this badly, but that has to be the most White post I've ever read on this board. Seriously, treating race like it's irrelevant to our modern world is a ridiculously privileged position to take. I know you meant it in a good way but... geeze. You're just burying your head to the realities of racial war in America. Of course you can afford to bury your head when it doesn't affect you personally.

That's a wide statement with a lot of ad hom. You don't even personally live in the US.

You didn't quote any part of my post, Francois. Privileged? Seriously? Clearly you are judging me by false, pre-conceived ideas rather than by my actual statements.

We grew up quite poor. I have numerous siblings, wore 3rd and 4th-hand clothes that didn't fit (when they weren't given to my cousin first) and began working at age 8.

Race is not irrelevant. We all have roots and family history, however, it is completely irrelevant as any sort of yardstick to judge another.

My full post is below. There is none of what you accuse in that post. Your pre-conceived judgemental attitudes toward me as a white person seem to have influenced you to make sweeping generalities. Perhaps if you saw me as an individual rather than just 'a white person', you would see my actual words and understand better:

QUOTE=JustSheila;1094200]

It seems to many in the US that racial divisions and conflicts have worsened in America over the last ten years or so.

Before that, I saw conditions and attitudes continue to improve through the 70s and 80s and even part of the 90s.

No doubt I was raised with discriminatory attitudes that I learned to later discard. So were other black and white Americans of my generation. But we grew up. So did America. Now there's a reversion and it's so sad to see.

To me (and dare I say it, the majority of others of either race of our generation), bringing up the misunderstandings and mistaken attitudes of our past serves no good purpose. It just reignites old wounds. Wounds that we were mature enough to overcome, to get past.

We had gotten to the point that the majority of Americans just didn't even see the color of another's skin, only the individuals in front of them. Why is that changing again? Why so much emphasis on skin color? How is that a good thing?

Why do the younger generations want to keep picking at old wounds? How can America heal and move forward when so many want to focus on the past and keep stirring up old stuff?

It's like taking a family fight from 30 years ago, a fight that was resolved with apologies, hugs, genuine compassion and love - a fight from which we all learned an important lesson, then bringing it up again as if we'd never made up, never learned, never gone forward.

I don't like this. It's tearing up America.

[/QUOTE]

 

[strativarius]

I recall from my time in Scn, about how LRH went on and on about the [highlight]vast network of powerful suppressives who were working ceaselessly to keep Scientology from succeeding[/highlight]. It kept us from thinking too much about other reasons why orgs weren't expanding, like maybe the admin and auditing technology was crap.

I remember that Hubbard had a bee in his bonnet about an organisation called 'The Council on Foreign Relations', which is still in existence. I can't recall specifically what it was this group was supposed to have done wrong, but I see no mention of it in Miscavige's utterances.

 

[JustSheila]

Handing people tools they can use to improve their situation is a good thing.

It is necessary, though, to give them an incentive to USE those tools to improve their own condition.

Yes. To break through any despair, past failures, feelings of inadequacy or incompetence or anything else that makes a person not feel good about themselves. Pride and confidence. MLK accomplished that. America could sure use leaders like him today.

 

[strativarius]

Now that's interesting. Self-checkouts in the US have the 'weighbridge' on the right, while we in the UK have them on the left. So not only do you yanks drive on the wrong side of the road, you shop on the wrong side as well.

US

UK.

 

[JustSheila]

More like, some people need an incentive to change out of dysfunctional behavior. And the change is best effected before the behavior has had generations to become set in stone, and before the number of dysfunctional dependents exceeds the carrying capacity of the system.

I agree that families need to take responsibility for their size when they are incapable of supporting themselves financially, and of course I agree with your earlier comments that families are (usually) better off when they are whole, with both a father and mother raising children.

But this is a very sensitive, delicate area. On one hand, you are dealing with a person's individual right to bear children. On the other, there is the question of whether one has the right to bear an unlimited number of children to be supported by government.

IMO, a community approach may be the best approach, one that provides birth control methods and family education. Teens are at an especially crucial point in their lives where they need good local role models and direction, to set goals for themselves and have a support network where those goals are actually attainable.

 

[Enthetan]

But this is a very sensitive, delicate area. On one hand, you are dealing with a person's individual right to bear children. On the other, there is the question of whether one has the right to bear an unlimited number of children to be supported by government.

Some couple wants to have five, eight, an even dozen kids AND they can feed, house, and educate them into becoming responsible, self-supporting citizens? Great! Have lots. Wife and I had several, ourselves.

My viewpoint is that people have a right to have as many kids as they want, BUT should not have the right to demand that I pay for them.

 

[JustSheila]

I agree in principle with what you're saying, Enthetan, but unfortunately, it's far more complicated than just 'I want to have more children.' There are a lot of sociological and psychological factors that bring this about.

One of my relatives is a minority who became pregnant as a teen. We are close and talked a lot about it.

She had no accomplishments or particular skills and did poorly in school. Becoming a mother made her feel she 'was somebody' and like she accomplished something important. The father stuck around, which is great, but they can't support themselves.

Similarly, a man with no other worthwhile achievements or job may feel he is important by having a lot of children and put that pressure on his wife/girlfriend and praise her and show the most love when she is pregnant or having delivered a child.

The same scenario happened in the poor white areas of England both before and after WWII.

Of course parenthood is the most incredible feeling. Kids are awesome. Getting teens and adults to widen their scope of abilities and achievements to include worthwhile, valuable contributions to society and giving them the pride of the ability to support their own families is the underlying problem that needs to be addressed, IMO.

 

[cleared cannibal]

Welfare is very tight in America, and you need to drop the illusions that people on welfare are enjoying semi-stability, let alone luxury. Poverty in the US has swelled because unionized, blue collar jobs were sent overseas. It used to be perfectly doable to make a stable living as a high school dropout, and within a very short time frame, that disappeared. So not only were people having to deal with this new reality, they are perpetually under the gun to make money NOW to avoid an eviction notice and make up what food stamps don't cover. (They don't cover all that much).

The incentive out of dysfunctional behavior would be a protected, firm avenue to stability. No more sending jobs overseas. Public healthcare. Generous food stamps, which cost only crumbs of the budget. (Look at a pie chart. You can't even see the slice it takes up). Then people have the time to improve their lives. It's not a coincidence that middle class people are less likely to get divorced, or have any kind of avoidable life crisis.

Raise the minimum wage and ending labor exploitation. If the minimum wage kept up with inflation and executive pay raises, it would be $22 an hour. Think about that the next time 15 an hour sounds ridiculous.

Or you know, we could stick with the flogging until morale improves. We've been doing that since the 80's, I'm sure we'll get good results any minute now.

I have eight people working for me. None makes minimum but they also don't make $15/hr. If the minimum becomes $15 dollars they will be unemployed the next day. I might keep one to answer the phone who makes near that now. The only other alternative would be to raise the prices dramatically on my products/services which I don't think the market would bear. Granted I have come to the point in my life to where I don't really need to make a lot of money but I am not going to work for nothing to give some people a job. The only reason to employ any one is one of two reasons. To make more income or to makes ones life easier.

Last year I had a single mother working for me that had 2 kids. She had had to quit because if all the benefits she was losing were taken into account we would have had to pay her in the $20-$25 range to equal them. I don't really blame her you got to do what you got to do, but it does go to show what level of benefits are available of the assistance programs. Falls right into your place where you say the minimum should be. The problem is our economy can't afford it. Being brutally honest we all are living above what we can afford our national debt shows this. If it comes between me starving and you starving to hell with you I am going to eat. I think if we all are honest with ourselves that would be most people's response, the trouble is most people can't be honest with themselves. They always covet what some else has and never look at themselves. Actually I think Scn does give some of a value in this regard but it goes to the extreme and causes one to blame themselves for everything. The key word being BALANCE hard to achieve.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

With some percentage, "no fault of their own" applies. With most, though, a lot of their current situation is through their own choices.

...

Deciding to have MULTIPLE kids she cannot support, outside of marriage, is very definitely a choice.

...

Deciding to eliminate the consequences for bad choices, that have existed for most of human history, is a bad social policy choice.

This argument always breaks down on the fact that a woman who has kids she can't support is making a choice, but the KIDS she has are not making a choice and why should they be punished? I'd give you my solution to this dilemma but I don't have one.

... Our state has just passed a law that you can't get food stamps unless you work or if you can't find a job they have a list of places one can volunteer. 20 hrs per week. ...

In the state where I was born this was called "workfare". But mothers staying home with small kids have ALWAYS been exempted.

Helena

 

[Enthetan]

This argument always breaks down on the fact that a woman who has kids she can't support is making a choice, but the KIDS she has are not making a choice and why should they be punished? I'd give you my solution to this dilemma but I don't have one.
[/COLOR]

In the past, a single mom with a kid she could not support could put him up for adoption.

 

[Churchill]

In Chicago, where liberal Democrat policies have held sway for decades...

In Chicago, where the Honorable Minister (and Scientologist) Louis Farrakhan and the Reverend Jeremiah Wright are the most prominent advocates of the Black Lives Matter movement...

there has been an 88% increase in murder so far this year.

This is what passes for moral leadership in Chicago.


This is what real moral leadership sounds like:
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/201...black_crime_do_black_lives_really_matter.html

 

[JustSheila]

Good article! The rekindling and fanning of old feuds and violence by some groups to create even more racial tension are directly in opposition to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s own words, his own dreams and leadership, his legacy. In Martin Luther King Jr's own words:

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”

“Forgiveness is not an occasional act. It is a permanent attitude.”

“I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.”


“Faith is taking the first step even when you don’t see the whole staircase.”


“Life’s most persistent and urgent question is, ‘What are you doing for others?'”


“Never succumb to the temptation of bitterness.”

“Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend.”

and one of my personal favorites,

“We may have all come on different ships, but we’re in the same boat now.”

http://parade.com/252644/viannguyen...king-jr-s-most-inspiring-motivational-quotes/

 

[Ted]

Good article! The rekindling and fanning of old feuds and violence by some groups to create even more racial tension are directly in opposition to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s own words, his own dreams and leadership, his legacy. In Martin Luther King Jr's own words:

[…]

http://parade.com/252644/viannguyen...king-jr-s-most-inspiring-motivational-quotes/

From Peggy Hubbard, an outspoken black advocate for change and improving the black communities:

Ray Lewis, the former NFL linebacker for the Ravens took a stand and delivered! He made an awesome commentary and observation regarding BLM. And, their flat out disregard of the black on black homicides across the country. How, they are so ready to pick up the so-called struggles against black people at the hands of white cops. While black men are targeting and killing each other. Ray Lewis came from the streets. He had run in with police. He made up HIS mind, to break away from the dispair and slave mentality. Yet we blame everyone else for our lack of achievement.....no problem there. No problem making funeral homes a cash cow. At the rate we are killing rach other? Happy hour and single mixers will be held at wakes! Seriously Shaquthia is up for grabs now that her pookie is gone.

Why is it? We continue to play "victim" when all this will take is for black Americans to stand together, let these criminals know. We will not hold on to the slave mentality. Take responsibility for our actions. And, hold others accountable for their bad decisions. Stop trying to suger coat criminals [sp] as saints. And, using the past to justify our discontent with our future. When WE are the true cause. Slavery was evil. We ALL built this country. We ALL struggled. We ALL experienced racism. The difference in the experience? Is how you rise above the slave mentality and free yourselves. Or, remain in the ghetto of your making. Times a wasting....the next wake starts on 15 minutes.​

 

[Free Being Me]

Meanwhile, in the 1970's, we had Vietnamese boat people arriving here, not knowing English, owning just what they had escaped with. Within a generation, their kids were valedictorians, they owned small businesses, and were well on the way into the middle class.

Because their attitude was "No excuses, do what is necessary to do well".

[HIGHLIGHT]Perhaps the best thing that could be done for the residents of the "inner city" is cancel all the academic social science grants, fire the social workers, terminate welfare, and tell people "Work or die, your choice". After a period of upset, we might just see some improvement in the scene.[/HIGHLIGHT]

Keep in mind that, before the 1960's, [HIGHLIGHT]black Americans[/HIGHLIGHT] had illegitimate birth rates equal to or lower than whites, and kids were mostly raised in intact families. But that made them independent. Couldn't have that.

Everybody. [HIGHLIGHT]Notice I did not specify a race in that paragraph.[/HIGHLIGHT] We have lots of white people who have been on welfare for multiple generations.

You did in the next paragraph though.

That's why empowerment is so important as I mentioned earlier. Educating people with effective tools to enable positive changes through their own actions. You and the people who like your posts seem more interested in shaming judgmental condemning punishment which is the opposite of empowerment.

What do you think ESMB is about? Empowerment! Ex's give emotional support, share their hardships, recommend cult recovery books, encourage each other, help people escape the cult, cheer each other on living a cult free life, and the list goes on. That's empowerment. If you can't understand that then I don't have much else to say.

Handing people tools they can use to improve their situation is a good thing.

It is necessary, though, to give them an incentive to USE those tools to improve their own condition.

Planning mass murder as an "incentive" for social betterment is what totalitarian regimes and their thugs do.

re the bolded line above.

I've liked some of Enthetans posts because I agree with them, and neither you nor anyone else will "shame, judge or condemn" me for it, it seems you are just in the mood for an argument and will misinterpret almost anything posted to accommodate that urge ... so that's all I'll be saying at the moment to you.

Wrong, disagreement isn't "just in the mood for an argument .... etc." That's a red herring and straw man, as well as magical thinking assumption of motive.

If you read Enthetan's first post, he offers up his plan of premeditated killing of what he has deemed inner city undesirables. His subsequent answers when challenged are an ends justifies the means and make no mistake, he's doubling down defending murdering predetermined segments of the population. What's gob smacking is you ITYIWT (and others) are "liking" his justifications for human extermination. I reiterate with an addition, in light of Enthetan's master plan, you and the people who like your posts seem more interested in shaming judgmental condemning punishment (and murder) which is the opposite of empowerment.

You all might want to rethink your positions while reexamining your moral compasses.

 

[Enthetan]

Planning mass murder as an "incentive" for social betterment is what totalitarian regimes and their thugs do.
If you read Enthetan's first post, he offers up his plan of premeditated killing of what he has deemed inner city undesirables.

Perhaps I could have better phrased it as "work or go hungry".

 

[ethercat]

Such hyperbole...

 

[strativarius]

Such hyperbole...

Is that the next step after the superbowl?