Non Clear R- Factors

Rae

Patron with Honors
Incredulous as it may seem...

It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.

There are no Clears..
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.

There are no Clears..

and let me guess....those all needed auditing cycles that they charged you for...
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.

There are no Clears..
WOW!!! This explains a lot of confusions seeing Clears/OTs in our field. If someone keeps messing with you like that how can you cope day to day? So introverting and disorienting as most Scn this far on the Bridge make it a lifetime commitment to go OT.

How do the tech terminals explain how you survived the Xenu stuff not being Clear/OT?

Were you told/threatened not to tell public about this Clear, not Clear status?
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.
HOLY FUCK
:duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:

:grouch: :angry::grouch: :angry: :grouch: :angry:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
From this, I would determine two things.

One: The Church is completely arbitrary about who it says is Clear.

Two: A person can be Clear one day, and not Clear the next.

I think both of those things are true. I don't believe Clear is what Hubbard said it was, and I don't believe it's a permanent "State". I believe it's a SKILL.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.

There are no Clears..

Fascinating Rae!!!

Had just a minor run through of what you experienced.

So we have a very advanced, sophiticated therapy, spiritual therapy perhaps, which it appears dosn't reach the 100% standard tech which it aspires to.

There have been 50+ defs of clear.

I confess I have no answer to all this. I'm that rare thing a natural clear,
and I'm not sure what that is really. Best I can come up with I did great on OT 1-3.

Best I can come up with is, well I'm an FZer, do the bridge, thouroughly
and have fun.
 

Good twin

Floater
It had been adjudicated that:

I was "Clear" when I got in in early 70s..was NOT Clear in 1978..was Clear in 1979..was NOT Clear in 1989...was Clear in 1989....was NOT Clear in 2003..was Clear in 2003..was NOT Clear in 2004..was Clear in 2004..was NOT Clear in 2007..was Clear in 2007..I doubted I was Clear in 2008..Oh..did I mention that I finished NEW NEW NEW OTVlll in 2003 or that I was on OTVll for 13 yrs starting in 1990...?

True story.

There are no Clears..

I love this post!!​
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
WOW!!! This explains a lot of confusions seeing Clears/OTs in our field. If someone keeps messing with you like that how can you cope day to day? So introverting and disorienting as most Scn this far on the Bridge make it a lifetime commitment to go OT.

How do the tech terminals explain how you survived the Xenu stuff not being Clear/OT?

Were you told/threatened not to tell public about this Clear, not Clear status?

I guess you could say I was very much a true believer in Hubbard and somewhat persistant(Ha!). And VERY angry, very introverted and very much convinced that it was all ME..and every time, I fell for the line about "there is out-tech on your case" and of course, I paid every single time. I was always one of the first to sign up for every new thing for OTs that came down the pike hoping and keeping on hoping that "this was the solution" ..that this was "THE" thing that was going to resolve my difficulties or handle what was supposed to have already been handled Clear thru OTVll.

That's the standard line, by the way. That there is "out-tech" on the case which is causing this or that. Of course, EVERY ONE has out tech on their cases.

The hardest thing though was the point you bring up about introversion. The higher up the bridge you go, the more it is drilled into you that YOU are cause, that YOU are responsible for your condition, that it's YOU who is out-ethics if you don't agree, that it's YOU who "pulled it in", on and on until one truly believes it's ALL yourself..and then when you are supposed to be "cause over life"..this REALLY screws with your mind.."OT Levels are a very self serving "commodity" to Scientology as the tech can NEVER be the why..only YOU are cause. Very convenient. So instead of getting more and more extroverted like you would think..in order to be truly "OT" , one gets more and more introverted without even realizing it.

To answer your question about what the Tech terminals tell you about Xenu and surviving etc, they don't tell you anything other than LRH developed a special OT handling in the event something like "this" would have happened.

And yes, there is an unspoken code that one would not "discuss his case" to another OT, especially about Clear. But everyone knew anyway if each other was on "THE" Advance Program...
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
Hang on. NED Clears didn't start until 1978. Did you do the Clearing Course?

It has been speculated on this thread that nobody who did the Clearing Course was ever de-attested from Clear.

DCSI 1978 correctimongo, another DCSI 1979..but that took me to the "was Clear when I got in in early "70's" if you get my drift..
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess you could say I was very much a true believer in Hubbard and somewhat persistant(Ha!). And VERY angry, very introverted and very much convinced that it was all ME..and every time, I fell for the line about "there is out-tech on your case" and of course, I paid every single time. I was always one of the first to sign up for every new thing for OTs that came down the pike hoping and keeping on hoping that "this was the solution" ..that this was "THE" thing that was going to resolve my difficulties or handle what was supposed to have already been handled Clear thru OTVll.

That's the standard line, by the way. That there is "out-tech" on the case which is causing this or that. Of course, EVERY ONE has out tech on their cases.

The hardest thing though was the point you bring up about introversion. The higher up the bridge you go, the more it is drilled into you that YOU are cause, that YOU are responsible for your condition, that it's YOU who is out-ethics if you don't agree, that it's YOU who "pulled it in", on and on until one truly believes it's ALL yourself..and then when you are supposed to be "cause over life"..this REALLY screws with your mind.."OT Levels are a very self serving "commodity" to Scientology as the tech can NEVER be the why..only YOU are cause. Very convenient. So instead of getting more and more extroverted like you would think..in order to be truly "OT" , one gets more and more introverted without even realizing it.

To answer your question about what the Tech terminals tell you about Xenu and surviving etc, they don't tell you anything other than LRH developed a special OT handling in the event something like "this" would have happened.

And yes, there is an unspoken code that one would not "discuss his case" to another OT, especially about Clear. But everyone knew anyway if each other was on "THE" Advance Program...

omg. I feel for you. Can't tell you how many times I heard there was "out tech on your case". The kicker for me personally was, when I wound up on staff again, they told me I pulled in all that "out tech on my case'. Some days, when I think I've slipped into numbness, this cult breaks my heart again. Of course you couldn't discuss your case...*sigh* It was never you...it was introversion tactics
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
I guess you could say I was very much a true believer in Hubbard and somewhat persistant(Ha!). And VERY angry, very introverted and very much convinced that it was all ME..and every time, I fell for the line about "there is out-tech on your case" and of course, I paid every single time. I was always one of the first to sign up for every new thing for OTs that came down the pike hoping and keeping on hoping that "this was the solution" ..that this was "THE" thing that was going to resolve my difficulties or handle what was supposed to have already been handled Clear thru OTVll.

That's the standard line, by the way. That there is "out-tech" on the case which is causing this or that. Of course, EVERY ONE has out tech on their cases.

The hardest thing though was the point you bring up about introversion. The higher up the bridge you go, the more it is drilled into you that YOU are cause, that YOU are responsible for your condition, that it's YOU who is out-ethics if you don't agree, that it's YOU who "pulled it in", on and on until one truly believes it's ALL yourself..and then when you are supposed to be "cause over life"..this REALLY screws with your mind.."OT Levels are a very self serving "commodity" to Scientology as the tech can NEVER be the why..only YOU are cause. Very convenient. So instead of getting more and more extroverted like you would think..in order to be truly "OT" , one gets more and more introverted without even realizing it.

To answer your question about what the Tech terminals tell you about Xenu and surviving etc, they don't tell you anything other than LRH developed a special OT handling in the event something like "this" would have happened.

And yes, there is an unspoken code that one would not "discuss his case" to another OT, especially about Clear. But everyone knew anyway if each other was on "THE" Advance Program...

Spot on Rae :thumbsup:

Being OT myself and watching OTVIIs beat themselves up trying to figure out why this stuff of day to day living is taking a toll on them and justifying this and that. The further you move on the bridge the LESS freedom you have to be YOURSELF.
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
Spot on Rae :thumbsup:

Being OT myself and watching OTVIIs beat themselves up trying to figure out why this stuff of day to day living is taking a toll on them and justifying this and that. The further you move on the bridge the LESS freedom you have to be YOURSELF.

Exactly..the day to day stuff of life, the REAL living of life in which "stuff" will ALWAYS happen..and then to have some little 16 yr. old MAA at the Sandcastle or on the Ship who was brought up in Scientology and has never even HAD a life tell you that you are "PTS"..when you know you are "cause over life" and you've done 3 or 4 PTS/SP courses and you just KNOW that YOU caused it but can't for the life of you figure out WHY, WHY and NO I"M NOT PTS because I"M CAUSE..so how could I be the effect if I don't want to be..but hey, WHY did I cause this then, around and around..what a circle jerk. Total and complete mind-f**k.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
CSW TO CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY:

To simplify r-factors and confusion & DevT surrounding Clear and whether anyone has achieved it or not, i propose that the R-Factor "THERE WAS OUT-TECH ON YOUR CASE" be canceled as arbitrary and ambiguous.

The new R-Factor should be:

THERE WAS TECH ON YOUR CASE

It will be so much simpler this way, since all all applications (and mis-applications) of TECH, likewise, do not result in a Clear.

This is Okay.

ML

HelluvaHoax!
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
CSW TO CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY:

To simplify r-factors and confusion & DevT surrounding Clear and whether anyone has achieved it or not, i propose that the R-Factor "THERE WAS OUT-TECH ON YOUR CASE" be canceled as arbitrary and ambiguous.

The new R-Factor should be:

THERE WAS TECH ON YOUR CASE

It will be so much simpler this way, since all all applications (and mis-applications) of TECH, likewise, do not result in a Clear.

This is Okay.

ML

HelluvaHoax!

Flunk for improper CSW format. You offer no situation and no data..just a simple solution. Shame on you.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Flunk for improper CSW format. You offer no situation and no data..just a simple solution. Shame on you.

LOL!

Yeah, hate to make excuses, but after being overboarded and imprisoned in this unlit chain locker, the policies are really soggy and hard to read.

But it's not all bad news. Here is the super-theta part. They promised me a candle when my chain locker goes Old St. Hill Size!

Hip Hip Hooray!
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
"The hardest thing though was the point you bring up about introversion. The higher up the bridge you go, the more it is drilled into you that YOU are cause, that YOU are responsible for your condition, that it's YOU who is out-ethics if you don't agree, that it's YOU who "pulled it in", on and on until one truly believes it's ALL yourself..and then when you are supposed to be "cause over life"..this REALLY screws with your mind.."OT Levels are a very self serving "commodity" to Scientology as the tech can NEVER be the why..only YOU are cause. Very convenient. So instead of getting more and more extroverted like you would think..in order to be truly "OT" , one gets more and more introverted without even realizing it.

To answer your question about what the Tech terminals tell you about Xenu and surviving etc, they don't tell you anything other than LRH developed a special OT handling in the event something like "this" would have happened.

And yes, there is an unspoken code that one would not "discuss his case" to another OT, especially about Clear. But everyone knew anyway if each other was on "THE" Advance Program..."

Thanks for filling a huge mystery and confusion for me.

I gotta appologize for a previous post I made about Clears/OTs.

This answers a lot about why some of them sort of crashed and burned. I had a friend who is on an "Advanced program" and since she started doing her auditing she looks like she aged 10 years, and she is hard to comprehend.

It's gotta be the lowest blow DM can dish out. Spiritual bashing way worse than what an abusive partner would do to you physically, is how I feel about this. Then to hide this info to the public and make it such a secret....

I hope being here has helped blow some charge for you. I know it has for me.
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
LOL!

Yeah, hate to make excuses, but after being overboarded and imprisoned in this unlit chain locker, the policies are really soggy and hard to read.

But it's not all bad news. Here is the super-theta part. They promised me a candle when my chain locker goes Old St. Hill Size!

Hip Hip Hooray!

St. Hill size?? I seem to recall murmurings of that a long time ago. Are you sure you don't mean you'll get that candle "when your chain locker becomes the first Ideal Chain Locker in your hood?"
 
Top