trepidatious

[afaceinthecrowd]

Yes, I met HRH and chatted briefly with him. He seemed cowed by the whole "Flag" deal as he hobbled around the upper decks. I would have liked to have had a more meaningful discourse with him..... like what did he think of his son.... but I didn't. And Hubbard never spoke of his father when I was with him. Of course, remember, I was only a child then.

Thanks, cowboy.

I had a midships upper-decks office and cabin when El Ron had his heart attack and was one of the "early responders". I've written about it and my "Take" here on ESMB. I know you were very young then, but I'm curious what your "Take" was and what the "buzz" was amongst the messengers.

Were you part of the messenger detail that interacted with Cathy Cariotaki and Kima and the hospital detail during that time?

Face

 

[Auditor's Toad]

For years I assumed that Broeker forged it. But I read something (forget where) relatively recently causing me to think that Hubbard had perhaps really written it.

Paul

Paul, look at an official copy of the will ( even the one executed the day before he croaked ) and see where the Broker's witnissed it & where DM witnessed it.

That alone is eye opening & raises a whole NEW series of questions.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

Cool thread.

There are two side to Hubbard I find particularly fascinating.

* The real L. Ron Hubbard that is incalculably and irreconcileably in diametric opposition to the supernatural saint persona that Scientologsts were cleverly deceived into believing.

* The monumental efforts that Hubbard made to create a swirling maelstrom of believable lies about himself, his achievements and his powers.
​

Stories that illustrate his very human, cruel, ignorant, disturbed psychological condition(s) are of extreme value to those who were swept along into personal oblivion for years, if not decades, hopelessly chasing the delusion that Ron was an ascended or perfected being--when he was oft times, cruel, avaricious, vengeful, violent, criminal and incapable of telling the truth.

And tales that demonstrate the lengths that Hubbard would go to in order to foster the errantly placed trust in the mythology of his OTness.

By telling your story you take a most venerated position as one of the rare and precious collaboration of BIOGRAPHERS who shine sunlight on some of Scientology's most treacherous untold story. Along with other wonderful writers and posters (like afaceinthecrowd who greeted you so warmly on this thread) and David Mayo and Jerry Armstrong, Bent Corydon, Jon Atak and others, you play an important role to many people around the world who will use your knowledge to complete their own.

I have very close friends who worked directly with Hubbard who, to this day, refuse to speak ill of him. I had dinner the other night with one who daringly even added words to the effect (unsolicited) that "....I could say things about what I saw with Ron, but I will never do that!"

Many here are delighted that you are taking that step...

Talk about the parts that you think others would have no way of knowing, if not for your insights into the secret world of Hubbard.

Naturally, anyone who has been in Scientology (and escaped) is guarded to some degree about accepting anyone's "word for it" when they have been lied to so often and badly in the world of Scientology.

But, I think you will find that virtually everyone here is interested in just knowing the simple truth.

Carry on my man, you are off to a great start!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

<snip>

The original bulletin was written by hand, and it was easy to recognize the flourishes of his handwriting. He'd written the bulletin a decade earlier, which contained the passages which he'd explained were the work of a rampant sp squirrel.

<snip>

Ahh, now there's the Ole CommodeDoor I knew!

 

[Gadfly]

I have very close friends who worked directly with Hubbard who, to this day, refuse to speak ill of him. I had dinner the other night with one who daringly even added words to the effect (unsolicited) that

"....I could say things about what I saw with Ron, but I will never do that!"

I have always had a special distaste for people who REFUSE to "tell the truth", and who would rather instead perpetrate some phony fabricated illusion.

But then, that IS the heart & soul of Scientology in a nutshell.

 

[WildKat]

It would be great if you could speak to us of what might have become of Pat Broeker, or the Spanish (or Mexican?) or Latina cooks/housekeepers? Any others who know things?

 

[Auditor's Toad]

I have always had a special distaste for people who REFUSE to "tell the truth", and who would rather instead perpetrate some phony fabricated illusion.

But then, that IS the heart & soul of Scientology in a nutshell.

I once heard someone who knew Ron pretty damn well in the 50s say : " There is the man & there is the myth. I knew the man & I'll not tarnish the myth ".

And that person dies with sealed lips.

I like people who share truth.

 

[Extaff Fenix]

<realizing this doesn't forward the conversation at hand> Well, since I'm here really to come to terms with my own leftover ****, I sit here feeling like an epic dumbass having drunk the Kool-aid, especially about LRH, and really sorry that my mom spent her whole retirement on this **** on the basis that she trusted my certainty. Now, I can start forgiving myself. It's gonna take a little while. But at least I'm not alone in my Kool-aid idiocy.

So cowboy, I get why you'd be trepidatious. Why did you climb aboard here? Being clear about that for yourself (if you're not) might help sort out what you say or do here. jmho.

 

[exsomessenger]

When I was posted in CMOCW we had a few missions, durring the time of the freewinds start up, where the Diana was dry docked at a marina just north of teh FH.

I went on a mission to figure out what to do with it. The funny thing was it was super confidential and noone at the FLB was to know that the Diana, a slice of Sea Org history, was just a few short miles from the land base.

I could never really understand why COB and WDC wanted to keep this from the public and more so the Sea ORg.

That got me thinking about DM and when he took over. Messengers were pretty well all over the place at that point. I can tell you that the majority of us really thought we were LRH's Messengers but in looking back we were now DM's messengers. it might not seem like a big thing to many but it really was the key to help DM to take over.

All the messengers thinking they are helping LRH and doing everything it takes to forward his purpose of making a clear planet. When really we were putting DM in place with a sledge hammer. oops

 

[Auditor's Toad]

When I was posted in CMOCW we had a few missions, durring the time of the freewinds start up, where the Diana was dry docked at a marina just north of teh FH.

I went on a mission to figure out what to do with it. The funny thing was it was super confidential and noone at the FLB was to know that the Diana, a slice of Sea Org history, was just a few short miles from the land base.

I could never really understand why COB and WDC wanted to keep this from the public and more so the Sea ORg.

That got me thinking about DM and when he took over. Messengers were pretty well all over the place at that point. I can tell you that the majority of us really thought we were LRH's Messengers but in looking back we were now DM's messengers. it might not seem like a big thing to many but it really was the key to help DM to take over.

All the messengers thinking they are helping LRH and doing everything it takes to forward his purpose of making a clear planet. When really we were putting DM in place with a sledge hammer. oops

Hmm. I remember tales of her being found as pretty much a rusted out hulk that was going to require almost everything be replaced. Everybody I knew that knew anything about boats did theri dead level best to not be anywhere near that project.

Sort of like when the idiots decided " We need us a race car ro sponsor " !

Oh, the question . Back in Phoenix did Ron really buy Formula One cars with the expectation of driving them ?
If so, wonder what became of 'em ?

But if Ron had managed to get in one he would have never ever been able to get out of it.
Back then could you imagine an open casket funeral with Ron perched in the drivers seat replete with leather helmet & driving gloves ?

 

[Veda]

I have some questions for Cowboy.

Who did Hubbard think was going to run Scientology when he was no longer around?


What did he think was going to happen when the person or people running Scientology discovered there were no upper OT levels, as Hubbard promised (unless there are)?


Why didn't Hubbard ever make phone calls to people he knew? (or did he?)


What was Hubbard's number one priority? Number two priority?


Thanks.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Veda, if my memory serves me right, David Mayo at his Ability Clinic in Santa Barbara brought out a level 8 which led the Co$ in a mad scramble to not be outdone to slap together " OT VIII " & release it.

Probably one of the reasons for the long runway of preps & sec checks & ethics clearances etc for OT VIII is that when OT VIII was announced it DID NOT EXIST.

And probaly the major reason for the silly assed " requirements " for OT IX & X to be released. There is about a 99.9999 % that neither exist.

$cn never needed a "product" to sell it. Sell it first. Pure policy.
Bat shit crazy you say ? I agree !

 

[Megalomaniac]

False Anonymity

Dear cowboy and anonymous storytellers,

First of all, welcome. And thanks for the stories.

In colloquial use, anonymity typically refers to the state of an individual's personal identity, or personally identifiable information, being publicly unknown.

Excuse me, but I just don't get the logic of being "anonymous" while proceeding to give enough information to identify yourself by anyone willing to make the effort. In particular, if OSA cared about you, they have all the clues they need.

I spent thousands of hours over many years in daily contact with the man.

Narrows it down to, what, less than 100 people?

Few can truly understand what went on in the final days.

I'm still uncertain if I want to even discuss it.

Assuming you had first hand knowledge of Hubbards last days, we're down to maybe 10 or fewer. :confused2: (my guess, ok, but amirite?)

A randomn night, Hubbard couldn't sleep. He was hidden away, his location known to perhaps five people.

Five people now.

I arrived on the ship a child, enamored with the idea of meeting the demi-god Hubbard. With time, I was with Hubbard almost daily, for six or eight hours a day, minimum.

Those who are movers and shakers still within the church, and those who were movers and shakers and left, were my friends.

How many children were on the Apollo? And you were friends with the "movers and shakers."

But what of Hubbard? Could I tell you of his Dodge Dart with the suped up engine and the Jeep Cherokee, and going to the mall with him in Indio to go shopping for MSH? This was before the termination of all contact to MSH due to the GO complications. Can I tell you of the negotiated payment to Sexton not to touch Suzzette? Can I tell of the reaction upon his face when he learned of Quentin's suicide?

I could talk of all those things, and many more.

First hand knowledge of Hubbard's facial reaction when he learned of Quentin's death?

Yes, I met HRH and chatted briefly with him. He seemed cowed by the whole "Flag" deal as he hobbled around the upper decks. I would have liked to have had a more meaningful discourse with him..... like what did he think of his son.... but I didn't. And Hubbard never spoke of his father when I was with him. Of course, remember, I was only a child then.

I assume HRH is L Ron Hubbard's father. You met him, too, when you were only a child.

I don't know who you are, cowboy. But, seriously, do you think OSA doesn't? And if you're effectively telling them, why not tell everyone? Sorry to derail.

Mac

 

[Veda]

Re: False Anonymity

-snip-

I don't know who you are, cowboy.

-snip-

Either you're attempting to out Cowboy, which is not OK, or you've decided that Cowboy is a troll.

In any event, you may have killed this thread.

I hope you haven't, since I'm curious to see Cowboy's responses to my questions.

 

[Veda]

Veda, if my memory serves me right, David Mayo at his Ability Clinic in Santa Barbara brought out a level 8 which led the Co$ in a mad scramble to not be outdone to slap together " OT VIII " & release it.

-snip-

Thanks. I'm familiar with the details of the AAC's briefly existing OT 8, before it was withdrawn.

 

[Lone Star]

Re: False Anonymity

Either you're attempting to out Cowboy, which in not OK, or you've decided that Cowboy is a troll.

In any event, you may have killed this thread.

I hope you haven't, since I'm curious to see Cowboy's responses to my questions.

Well....we certainly don't want this thread killed! I dedicate this to Cowboy, and to a lesser extent LRH who always wanted to be a Cowboy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glb2U6y-GdU


Keep on postin' Cowboy....Don't worry about OSA. We have the tech to handle them.

 

[cowboy]

Thank you and please don't be put off by any wildness I post. You are potentially the icing on a cake long in the making for us here at ESMB.

Specific: Did Mayo save LRH life with auditing; Did LRH make Mayo Snr C/S Int?

LRH was in a horrible state. He may or may not have died. He preferentially chose David Mayo to help him, which Mayo did, quite successfully. There were other factors involved, contributing to the situation. LRH believed in Mayo. He trusted him. He liked him. And Mayo had nothing but the best of intentions toward LRH. LRH felt that Mayo saved is life, and awarded him his deserved status accordingly.

The escalation of Mayo's position caused jealousies, serious jealousies, among others.

 

[cowboy]

Were you on Flag when Harriet Ingraham came to visit LRH in 1974/75? (that may be too young for you)

Did Hubbard never suspect that Miscavige lied to him about Mayo to discredit him and get him off the line?

I don't recall Harriet.

Re: Your second part..... it is my personal opinion, due to years in his position that the old man never fully trusted anyone.... well, except for two people. It is my feeling, however, that his distrust of everyone was played upon, which led to his lowering his opinion of Mayo. It was easy for him to believe that someone had turned, as, from his point of view, countless trusted people had turned through the years.

 

[Terril park]

Re: False Anonymity

Dear cowboy and anonymous storytellers,

First of all, welcome. And thanks for the stories.



Excuse me, but I just don't get the logic of being "anonymous" while proceeding to give enough information to identify yourself by anyone willing to make the effort. In particular, if OSA cared about you, they have all the clues they need.


Narrows it down to, what, less than 100 people?


Assuming you had first hand knowledge of Hubbards last days, we're down to maybe 10 or fewer. :confused2: (my guess, ok, but amirite?)


Five people now.


How many children were on the Apollo? And you were friends with the "movers and shakers."


First hand knowledge of Hubbard's facial reaction when he learned of Quentin's death?



I assume HRH is L Ron Hubbard's father. You met him, too, when you were only a child.

I don't know who you are, cowboy. But, seriously, do you think OSA doesn't? And if you're effectively telling them, why not tell everyone? Sorry to derail.

Mac

I see that as on the money Mac. Same for Face really.

 

[cowboy]

For years I assumed that Broeker forged it. But I read something (forget where) relatively recently causing me to think that Hubbard had perhaps really written it.

Paul

There were only three people that new completely what happened. Two are dead. The third will never speak, and if so, would still not be believed, no matter what he said.