Seeking a $200,000+ repayment!!

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yesterday, I received a returned letter from the SF org. So, it looks like ClearedSP was absolutely correct. It turns out that, in the US, the recipient must sign for certified mail, and the SF Church indeed refused. Now ... resending regular mail ... .


Post on the letter: Sent regular mail, certified mail and fax it to them. Keep sending it. Ask the postmaster how you can send it and not have them sign for it but to verify from the post office it was delivered. Contact Ray Jeffries and ask him to help you or refer an attorney to help you. Keep going and get others to go with you! The more the merrier - not a class action suit but an attorney who will represent many people at the same time. Time to "shock and awe" the cult! They are going broke and it is time to break them!!

Contact the attorney general's office and tell them you have given money for services you no longer wish to get and want your money back and the Church of Scientology is refusing to receive any mail from you.

Contact several journalists, Tony Ortega, Tampa Bay Times...all journalist's who will report this disgusting abuse of cult behavior!

Expose the crimes that the church of Scientology commits over and over and over again! Miscavige is a small little coward! He thinks he is so smart and has justified all of his criminal acts. Hubbard is right about ONE THING only - the criminal always GETS CAUGHT!

That will rattle their cage!! IT IS YOUR MONEY - not the CULT's money and they have no right to keep it!

The more this behavior goes public, the more the public stays away in droves, villages, cities and states...not to mention countries!!
 

spookles99

Patron
Thank you! I had been giving up about getting my repayment of $80,000 plus I requested a year and a half ago. I just hadn't put any real pressure on the orgs yet. I just asked nicely and then complained and suggested I was going to contact a lawyer and pretended I had contacted a lawyer (I really did contact one, it's just that he was a friend and we just talked about it briefly). I now want to put some pressure on. I will drop off my demand letter in person and take a video of myself dropping it off. Let them lie about that! The war is on!

Thanks again for getting me motivated!


It sounds like you need a credible threat of lawyering up. I get the impression that stone walling is the knee jerk response.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
You can do Certified with Return Receipt, they do have to sign for it... you get tracking and proof of delivery, for legal purposes! :thumbsup: :happydance:

Atta Boy, Spooky! :clap: Go get them!!! :biggrin:

You can serve someone by publishing it in the paper, for those who refuse Certified mail... So I bet you could do the same with notifying them of your request for a refund... a legal step prior to suing them. Be sure to send a copy to the IRS and the local County tax assessor's office. Tax status as a "Charitable Institution" could definitely be at risk if they do not promptly refund your money upon request, as promised to their "parishioners".

Take out an ad in the local paper, like the "not responsible for debts incurred by anyone other than myself" type, and formally put the Org in question on notice that you are seeking a return of your money they are holding on account.

I would also write to the local D.A.'s office, as the Org's witholding your money held on account constitutes financial fraud. Write as a concerned consumer looking for justice.

Look into local media types who do consumer fraud/consumer protection reporting. If there is any significant delay in your getting a refund, let them go to bat for you and your cause!

The one thing that will hit COS where they live is the threat of bad publicity or a potential flap.

what a great post with great advice.
May I put this on my FB page?
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Thank you! I had been giving up about getting my repayment of $80,000 plus I requested a year and a half ago. I just hadn't put any real pressure on the orgs yet. I just asked nicely and then complained and suggested I was going to contact a lawyer and pretended I had contacted a lawyer (I really did contact one, it's just that he was a friend and we just talked about it briefly). I now want to put some pressure on. I will drop off my demand letter in person and take a video of myself dropping it off. Let them lie about that! The war is on!

Thanks again for getting me motivated!

Keep in mind the high probability of OSA reading forums. You may not want to reveal much of your plans and weaknesses in public.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
One needs to absolutely convince the org a steadfast willingness to bring entheta & bad PR plus a legal action AND getting the media & some gov't agencies involved.

Less than a balls to the wall approach will get stonewalled until hell freezes over.

Want your money back ? Act like you want your money & are going to get it, period.

Get tough. They only play tough ( like all bullies ).
 

OperatingSP

Patron with Honors
I have $200,000+ on account with various Scientology churches. For background, visit my blog series, This Is Scientology! (CLICK HERE) or, better (for my bank account!), buy my book, Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups & Downs of Scientoloholism. (CLICK HERE)

Here's a copy of the letter I mailed today (certified mail, of course):View attachment 5312

Here it is with some of the formatting lost:

November 19, 2012

Church of Scientology, San Francisco Church of Scientology

701 Montgomery Street Flag Service Organization

San Francisco, CA 94111 210 South Fort Harrison Ave

Clearwater, FL 33756 USA

Church of Scientology, ASHO Church of Scientology, AOLA

1413 L. Ron Hubbard Way 1306 L. Ron Hubbard Way

Los Angeles, CA 90027 Los Angeles, CA 90027

cc: Keeper of the Miscavige-Certified Electrically Insulated Entheta Damping Rods
HAIL CAESAR!!
Religious Technology Center

1710 Ivar Avenue #1100

Los Angeles, CA 90028

Re: Full Repayment of all Moneys on Account

Attn: Treasury

I demand the full repayment of all funds currently on account with the four above-listed Scientology service organizations.

I am pleased to report that I have kicked my Scientology addiction and no longer need to use Scientology to get high or low or for any other reason. I fear, however, that I may still be brutally addicted to Scientology. A casual review of my PC and Ethics folders will no doubt confirm for you that I am a glutton for punishment. And so, as part of returning my funds, I would be delighted if you could cement the transaction by declaring me to be a fire-breathing, three-horned, cross-eyed, farting, Miscavige-certified-electrically-insulated-entheta-damping-rod-rejecting, drooling, joking-and-degrading (I’m still learning; how am I doing?) Suppressive Person. Feel free to add as many adjectives as you please, maybe something about getting no case gain ... or poop ... whatever.
The more details the better, I’m sure.

I will never use any money on account for future Scientology services. (Just in case you have any doubts, you might want to check out my blog, www.vancewoodward.com and read my book, entitled Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups & Downs of Scientoloholism.)

I want my account money repaid to me. This demand includes: money on account for auditing, training, materials, food and accommodations, and the pro rata portion of any money owing on partially used auditing intensives ... in short ALL UNUSED AMOUNTS.
I believe the breakdown is something like as follows.

Flag: $116,362.39 ($112,670 services plus $3,692.39 for accommodations).

AOLA: $54,204 (various services).

ASHO: $17,318.25 (various services).

San Francisco: $14,906.25 (Premier Auditor Training Package)
$740.64 (Premier Auditor Training Package)
$4,400 (two unused intensives)
$???? (the pro rata portion of the unused amount that remains from my last-invoiced intensive. Incidentally those last few intensives were part of what was originally a twenty-intensives package. Subtracting three intensives leaves seventeen intensives ... good for the maximum discount.)


Please provide an accounting that calculates the amounts to be properly returned to me. I expect a quick and full repayment within ten days of receipt of this letter. This demand is in accordance with existing Church policy, the same policy that was quoted to the IRS when the Church of Scientology was granted tax-exempt status. I quote the Church’s policy here:
It has been a long-standing policy of the Church that if someone is dissatisfied with their Scientology services and asks to have their contributions returned within a three month period, these amounts will be returned. Likewise, if the person asks for return of contributions for which no services were received (i.e. an advance payment), there is no three month limitation period. Anyone newly enrolling in services at a Church of Scientology is informed of the policies and signs an agreement to abide by them. As a further condition of receiving a refund or repayment, the person understands that they may not again receive services from the Church.

Within the Church, there are two separate terms: A "refund" refers to a return of contributions to a parishioner within 90 days of participating in religious services while a "repayment" refers to a return of a parishioner's advance payment before he or she has participated in religious services. ...

The Church's refund policy is exceedingly fair. If someone isn't happy with Scientology [uh, yeah-ah, that’d, be me] — which is a very small minority of people — he simply has to make a proper request for his donations back [phew, lucky I’m a guy], agree to forego further services [I enthusiastically so agree] and his donations will be returned [I look forward to receiving them]. For the Church, in addition to the fact that this policy aligns with Scientology principles of exchange, it also serves the purpose of allowing our churches and the parishioners who are very happy with Scientology, to carry on without the unhappy few in their midst.​
I anticipate that you will request that I complete a short routing form promulgated by your Claims Verification Board or some such thing. I am happy to complete any short routing form, that is a routing form that is not unduly burdensome, designed to forestall or thwart my demand for a refund, or calculated to be in any way the slightest pain in the rear. (Best not be poisoned, either.)

Please confirm that the Church will forever bar me from future service. If possible, please make that a multi-lifetime bar. I don’t want to be tempted ever again. In fact, I request that you bar each and every one of my descendants from participating in Scientology, in perpetuity. While you’re at it, can I get some barred-from-Scientology-forever noties to give to my friends and anybody else I meet in the future? (Please leave the names blank; I’ll fill them in as appropriate.) But if you’re going to charge me for them, forget it.

Rest assured that I refuse to set foot in any Scientology organizations. I do not want to meet with any representatives of the Church save for one purpose: to accept delivery of money (and maybe a salad or something healthy, I suppose). I will interpret any attempt to get me to change my mind as a deliberate attempt to provoke me into tearing my clothes off and running around naked. You’ll be to blame.

Best regards,

Vance Woodward

Cross-posted to WWP: https://forums.whyweprotest.net/community/threads/seeking-a-200-000-repayment.106878/

.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Post on the letter: Sent regular mail, certified mail and fax it to them. Keep sending it. Ask the postmaster how you can send it and not have them sign for it but to verify from the post office it was delivered. Contact Ray Jeffries and ask him to help you or refer an attorney to help you. Keep going and get others to go with you! The more the merrier - not a class action suit but an attorney who will represent many people at the same time. Time to "shock and awe" the cult! They are going broke and it is time to break them!!

Contact the attorney general's office and tell them you have given money for services you no longer wish to get and want your money back and the Church of Scientology is refusing to receive any mail from you.

Contact several journalists, Tony Ortega, Tampa Bay Times...all journalist's who will report this disgusting abuse of cult behavior!

Expose the crimes that the church of Scientology commits over and over and over again! Miscavige is a small little coward! He thinks he is so smart and has justified all of his criminal acts. Hubbard is right about ONE THING only - the criminal always GETS CAUGHT!

That will rattle their cage!! IT IS YOUR MONEY - not the CULT's money and they have no right to keep it!

The more this behavior goes public, the more the public stays away in droves, villages, cities and states...not to mention countries!!

Great ideas, and I am all for collecting returned letters of all kinds, faxes sent that shows on your copy that the transmission went through, wash, rinse, repeat, as they say. Make your collection of evidence as big as you want - or bigger.

I can give you contact infos for SF Gate, WIRED, and the Chronicle.

WIRED loves SF anons.

Here's Quinn's article:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/anonymous-101/all/

anon-scientology-f-660x440.jpg
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Keep in mind the high probability of OSA reading forums. You may not want to reveal much of your plans and weaknesses in public.

In that case, I probably shouldn't say I just put a waterproofed subpoena into a bottle of Glenlivet and had it sent to Int Base.

:lol:
 
I have $200,000+ on account with various Scientology churches. For background, visit my blog series, This Is Scientology! (CLICK HERE) or, better (for my bank account!), buy my book, Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups & Downs of Scientoloholism. (CLICK HERE)

Here's a copy of the letter I mailed today (certified mail, of course):View attachment 5312

Here it is with some of the formatting lost:

November 19, 2012

Church of Scientology, San Francisco Church of Scientology

701 Montgomery Street Flag Service Organization

San Francisco, CA 94111 210 South Fort Harrison Ave

Clearwater, FL 33756 USA

Church of Scientology, ASHO Church of Scientology, AOLA

1413 L. Ron Hubbard Way 1306 L. Ron Hubbard Way

Los Angeles, CA 90027 Los Angeles, CA 90027

cc: Keeper of the Miscavige-Certified Electrically Insulated Entheta Damping Rods
HAIL CAESAR!!
Religious Technology Center

1710 Ivar Avenue #1100

Los Angeles, CA 90028

Re: Full Repayment of all Moneys on Account

Attn: Treasury

I demand the full repayment of all funds currently on account with the four above-listed Scientology service organizations.

I am pleased to report that I have kicked my Scientology addiction and no longer need to use Scientology to get high or low or for any other reason. I fear, however, that I may still be brutally addicted to Scientology. A casual review of my PC and Ethics folders will no doubt confirm for you that I am a glutton for punishment. And so, as part of returning my funds, I would be delighted if you could cement the transaction by declaring me to be a fire-breathing, three-horned, cross-eyed, farting, Miscavige-certified-electrically-insulated-entheta-damping-rod-rejecting, drooling, joking-and-degrading (I’m still learning; how am I doing?) Suppressive Person. Feel free to add as many adjectives as you please, maybe something about getting no case gain ... or poop ... whatever.
The more details the better, I’m sure.

I will never use any money on account for future Scientology services. (Just in case you have any doubts, you might want to check out my blog, www.vancewoodward.com and read my book, entitled Addicted to Scientology: Overcoming the Ups & Downs of Scientoloholism.)

I want my account money repaid to me. This demand includes: money on account for auditing, training, materials, food and accommodations, and the pro rata portion of any money owing on partially used auditing intensives ... in short ALL UNUSED AMOUNTS.
I believe the breakdown is something like as follows.

Flag: $116,362.39 ($112,670 services plus $3,692.39 for accommodations).

AOLA: $54,204 (various services).

ASHO: $17,318.25 (various services).

San Francisco: $14,906.25 (Premier Auditor Training Package)
$740.64 (Premier Auditor Training Package)
$4,400 (two unused intensives)
$???? (the pro rata portion of the unused amount that remains from my last-invoiced intensive. Incidentally those last few intensives were part of what was originally a twenty-intensives package. Subtracting three intensives leaves seventeen intensives ... good for the maximum discount.)


Please provide an accounting that calculates the amounts to be properly returned to me. I expect a quick and full repayment within ten days of receipt of this letter. This demand is in accordance with existing Church policy, the same policy that was quoted to the IRS when the Church of Scientology was granted tax-exempt status. I quote the Church’s policy here:

It has been a long-standing policy of the Church that if someone is dissatisfied with their Scientology services and asks to have their contributions returned within a three month period, these amounts will be returned. Likewise, if the person asks for return of contributions for which no services were received (i.e. an advance payment), there is no three month limitation period. Anyone newly enrolling in services at a Church of Scientology is informed of the policies and signs an agreement to abide by them. As a further condition of receiving a refund or repayment, the person understands that they may not again receive services from the Church.

Within the Church, there are two separate terms: A "refund" refers to a return of contributions to a parishioner within 90 days of participating in religious services while a "repayment" refers to a return of a parishioner's advance payment before he or she has participated in religious services. ...

The Church's refund policy is exceedingly fair. If someone isn't happy with Scientology [uh, yeah-ah, that’d, be me] — which is a very small minority of people — he simply has to make a proper request for his donations back [phew, lucky I’m a guy], agree to forego further services [I enthusiastically so agree] and his donations will be returned [I look forward to receiving them]. For the Church, in addition to the fact that this policy aligns with Scientology principles of exchange, it also serves the purpose of allowing our churches and the parishioners who are very happy with Scientology, to carry on without the unhappy few in their midst.​

I anticipate that you will request that I complete a short routing form promulgated by your Claims Verification Board or some such thing. I am happy to complete any short routing form, that is a routing form that is not unduly burdensome, designed to forestall or thwart my demand for a refund, or calculated to be in any way the slightest pain in the rear. (Best not be poisoned, either.)

Please confirm that the Church will forever bar me from future service. If possible, please make that a multi-lifetime bar. I don’t want to be tempted ever again. In fact, I request that you bar each and every one of my descendants from participating in Scientology, in perpetuity. While you’re at it, can I get some barred-from-Scientology-forever noties to give to my friends and anybody else I meet in the future? (Please leave the names blank; I’ll fill them in as appropriate.) But if you’re going to charge me for them, forget it.

Rest assured that I refuse to set foot in any Scientology organizations. I do not want to meet with any representatives of the Church save for one purpose: to accept delivery of money (and maybe a salad or something healthy, I suppose). I will interpret any attempt to get me to change my mind as a deliberate attempt to provoke me into tearing my clothes off and running around naked. You’ll be to blame.

Best regards,

Vance Woodward

hmmmm...

there appears to be some potential in your prose style...

there might be room for you on the writing staff
 

spookles99

Patron
Here's the text of the letter:


January 1, 2013
Vance Woodward
3145 Yakima Circle
San Jose, CA 95121

Re: Your Request for Repayment
- Dear Vance:

This is in response to your letter of November 19, 2012.

As was stated in the enrollment forms for religious services which you read and signed, there is no state or federal law that requires that a religious organization return donations it receives, and Scientology Churches have no duty or obligation under civil law to return any such donation. Nevertheless, Scientology Churches will, under certain circumstances, return advanced donations, if there is strict compliance with Church policy covering return of donations. Any return of donations or refund is entirely a creation of Scientology policy, and determination of any request for a return of donations or refund is strictly a matter of the application of Scientology religious policy and procedure, and is within the ecclesiastical discretion of the Claims Verification Board (CVB).

Under well-established Scientology policy and as set forth in your enrollment forms, in order to receive a repayment or refund, a person must complete the CVB routing form. Doing the CVB routing form requires that you come into the Church and meet with the Chapiain, and per your own statement, you will not do that. The Routing Form requires your participation. Without doing the steps, you have nothing to submit to the CVB to seek approval of your claim.

Thus, you will not be receiving a return of advance religious donations from this Church. You will be sent a check for accommodations for $3,692.39, as those are not religious donations.
Sincerely,


Maddie Hooper
Legal Assistant
 

spookles99

Patron
Here's my response:



March 13, 2013

Church of Scientology, San Francisco Church of Scientology, Flag
701 Montgomery Street 210 South Fort Harrison Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94111 Clearwater, FL 33756

Church of Scientology Church of Scientology
American Saint Hill Organization (ASHO) Advanced Organization Los Angeles (AOLA)
1413 L. Ron Hubbard Way 1306 L. Ron Hubbard Way
Los Angeles, CA 90027 Los Angeles, CA 90027

Re: Full Repayment of All Money on Account

Dear Sir/Madam:

By letter dated November 19, 2012, a copy of which I sent to each of the above addressees, I requested a repayment of all my money on account with the SF Church, Flag, ASHO and AOLA.

I have now come to my senses and want to return to Scientology. I realized that Scientology really does have all the answers and I was foolish to think I had any answers. Moreover, I tried hanging out with non-Scientologists, and you know what? I have tons in common with normal people, err, I mean non-Scientologists. I realized that I’m normal too. But I don’t want that for myself. I liked being a cult addict, I liked having “friends” pester me for all my money all the time, and I liked being punished by Scientology ethics officers for using the internet. Apparently I liked it. I mean, why else did I suffer through it for so many years? Please let me know how I can become a member in good standing with the Church once again.

Phew! It’s funny because I bet I had you at least for a fraction of a second. Anyhow, what follows is serious stuff. So, pay attention. Not joking. I sent the above-mentioned letters by registered mail. I checked the United States Postal Service website and obtained the following information:

  • Letter to AOLA: Tracking number 70122210000229290070, “Status: Arrived at Unit … Your item arrived at 8:07am on November 21, 2012 in LOS ANGELES, CA 90027.”


  • Letter to ASHO: Tracking number 70122210000229290063, “Status: Arrived at Unit … Your item arrived at 8:07am on November 21, 2012 in LOS ANGELES, CA 90027.”


  • Letter to Flag: Tracking number 70122210000229290148, “Status: Delivered … Your item was delivered at 10:47am on November 23, 2012 in CLEARWATER, FL 33756.”


  • Letter to SF Church: Tracking number 70122210000229290049, “Status: Delivered … Your item was delivered at 9:18am, November 28, 2012 in SAN JOSE, CA 95121.” This letter is registered as “Arriving at unit” at 6:54am on November 20, 2012, and then as having been “refused” on 9:01am on the same date. My name and return address were prominently displayed on the envelope. Maybe there’s a connection. Upon its return, I re-sent the letter regular mail. That time, it wasn’t returned.

I only received one response, dated January 1, 2013, from Maddie Hooper, Legal Assistant, written on Flag letterhead. It’s unclear whether Ms. Hooper is answering on behalf of all the above addressees or only for Flag. Actually, it’s not even clear that she has any authority to speak for Flag, being a Legal Assistant. (Need some help?) Anyhow, Ms. Hooper claims that I signed some enrollment forms in which the Church sets out its legal position on stuff. I fail to understand the relevance of that or anything else contained in Ms. Hooper’s letter. To the extent you think that anything in Ms. Hooper’s letter warrants a response, my response is laughter. And I deny, deny, deny.

I have never even taken services at Flag, AOLA or ASHO. It escapes me how I could have signed any enrolment forms applicable to those organizations. Of the addressees, I have taken services only at the SF Church and I do not recall signing any form giving up any rights to my money. In Xenu’s name, I deny that I signed any form that would have affected my rights to seek a repayment of my money. Please send me any documents that you contend affect my right to seek a repayment.

In her letter, Ms. Hooper also mentioned something about contacting the Chaplain and applying to some internal Church body called a “Claims Verification Board” for a refund. Please send me any documents you believe obligate me to participate in the Church’s CVB. As an expert on the Church’s ethics and justice technology (not kidding, I’m a Scientology gold-certified Ethics Specialist), it is my opinion that Scientology’s ethics and justice system is a warped, corrupt sham. I can’t imagine the CVB would be any different. It’s amusing that you would ask (I’m assuming with a straight face, not that I can see you) former parishioners to submit to the Church’s CVB for a determination of whether or not the former parishioners can get their own money back. Uh, do I really have to point out that such an organ would be totally biased, i.e. corrupt?

By the way, I discovered that on OT VIII we are supposed to realize that we mocked up all our past-life memories and, consequently, we become free to leave the past behind and move forward into the future. That is so awesome! I just saved you a bunch of money, I hope. No need to thank me.

Anyhow, for the sake of humoring you, I have on at least three separate dates called the SF Church, asking for the Chaplain. On each occasion, the receptionist told me that the Chaplain was unavailable. On each occasion I left messages requesting the Chaplain to call me back, leaving my name and phone number. I have not received any return communication. Suffice it to say that I think you are up to no good and are stonewalling me. Let’s forego the silliness. I don’t want any more Scientology. And there’s no way you’d service me anyhow. I was for a long time addicted to Scientology. I think you’d understand a former heroin addict not wanting to be around heroin addicts. Well, it’s basically the same thing with Scientology. I’ve kicked the habit, thank Gawd! By the way, I can help you quit, too. It’s easy. Just realize that everybody eventually quits anyhow. So, stop wasting your time and money; leave today! And get busy reading about Scientology on the internet. What? Are you afraid to look? Believe me. There will be a day when you will laugh and shake your head at how stupid we all were. I look forward to it.

Here are my demands:

  • Provide me with an accounting of all money you owe me.
  • Return all the money you owe me.
  • Send me my preclear folders and ethics folders.
  • Send me whatever documents you contend affect my right to sue your butts.

It appears that you are “lawyering up.” Given that you have turned this matter over to a Legal Assistant to handle, I understand that you consider this to be a legal matter, not a Church matter. Nevertheless, I’m making another repayment request with this letter. Please send me back something that shows you’re going to move the ball forward here. If I don’t receive a such a response within thirty days, I’ll have to “raise the ethics gradient.” Ooooh. I might even have to assign you guys lower conditions. Oh heck, I’ll just do that right now. I assign all the addressees a condition of Treason. Have full write-ups delivered to me in thirty days; otherwise ominous, unspecified penalties will be doubled.

Much love,

Vance Woodward
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Panda, he is a lawyer.

And if you are not aware, he is running a series on the bolg The Underground Bunker by Tony Ortega. The two are in an ongoing series and dissecting the Book dianetics.
Lol, this CofS-footbulletry warrants Lawyers (plural)!!! :biggrin:

Yes, I've been following that excellent discussion. :thumbsup:
 
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