Debbie Cook is back on the internet.

CommunicatorIC

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http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=303485

MirnaMinkoff
Post subject: Truth About Debbie Cook as Capt FSO
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:50 am
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 56
I read/lurk ESMB a few times a month, but have never bothered to register there. Due to a current thread I was going to sign up and post this, but can't register because any email address (yahoo, etc..) is ID'ed as a spammer, it tells you to hit "contact us" to rectify but then that button takes you to an error page.

Recently a thread entitled "Debbie Cook is back on the internet" cropped up. It begun the old argument about her being a bad guy or good guy. A few rush to her defense saying she should not be held accountable for her time as Captain as Flag because she was in the cult mindset. I notice the people who give this argument are almost always former PUBLIC, people who only knew her friendly facade as FLAG captain - I don't ever see those who worked with or under her at FLAG run to her defense and there is a very good reason for this.

A few months after Debbie Cook email I was sent the following by a former SO I had had some contact and interviews with. It was a offhand negative remark on the subject of Debbie's email that led to this person explain why they felt Debbie was not to be trusted - and they turned out to be right. I chose not to share it at the time because I had hoped Debbie's evolution would continue and didn't want to give the cult any ammunition when they were battling her (not that this would have served this purpose much, since it just makes them all look bad.) Anyway, its obvious Debbie took a pay off and is happy keeping her mouth shut about (as she said) "where the bodies are buried." So I think it's time to add some reality to those who would defend Debbie due to her one act of sending an email and taking on DM, taking him on for what in the end was just for personal gain.

Reading another round of people defending her and anything she did at FLAG - while its obvious these same people have no real idea what she actually did at FLAG - got my dander up and made me decide it was time to share this.

Without further ado, testimony from a former SO at FLAG who was there during a few years where Debbie was at the helm. This person left the SO and eventually Scientology years ago, and while they have helped behind the scenes to confirm info given by other Ex-SO they do not want to be public themselves.

Feel free to post this over at ESMB since I can't.

Quote:
I was in the SO at FSO in the early to mid 1990s. There is no doubt that there is a component of truth that we all acted in certain ways because it was SOP or there was duress/ orders from above or some idea of "for the greater good," but many of us acted on our own accord and some very selfishly and Debbie Cook has far more than her share of crimes, yes crimes in the real sense, not the fucked up "scientology" sense. I even knew Wayne before he courageously presented her with flowers and they started a relationship.

Debbie Cook is not a victim. Her are some truths about her actions as CO FSO:

In 1992 Debbie Cook was made aware that several Sea Org Members children in the cadet org had been sexually molested and effectively raped. Debbie's reaction was the same as ours - throw the children into ethics and find out why they "pulled it in" and to get their perversions on the Second Dynamic corrected; and to enforce that no police were contacted and force the Sea Org parents involved to be disallowed to talk with the adults who did it (yes, women and men did the molesting). Any Sea Org parent who made a fuss was also thrown into ethics - and Debbie herself ordered this. She even had the sex offenders given new posts and they simply did "ethics conditions".

In addition to this, Debbie Cook actively promoted and sent FSO Recruiter Nissem Moscona (spelling phonetically, probably spelling it very wrong) to third world countries in South America to "Recruit" sea org members that were raw public. Debbie herself OKed and even helped to formulate those "missions" to Mexico and other countries. When these recruits arrived many of them appealed to her directly to be let go of. Her response was to have them thrown on the decks, refused their return airfares and under Flag Orders allowing them to have their pay suspended, removed any means they had of even making phone calls back home. So many of them knew virtually no english that they created their own "group" at the Flag Land Base and rather than given assistance in education or learning English were instead rushed through training in translated texts. She also knew and supported the withholding of their passports. She knowingly approved those missions and new the garbage they were bringing back. She had no concerns about the innumerable phone calls being made to the FSO by concerned parents, sisters and brothers and ordered HCO to prevent any messages or letters going to those staff.

In addition to this she was most happy to take advantage of a loop hole in the Book Sales Commissions scheme herself and worked with the Book Store Officer and turned a blind eye to him often each week reaping over $10,000 in commissions. She was happy to do this because she often interjected in the reg cycles and therefore she claimed "50/50" on these commissions. While hard working Sea Org Members had insufficient funds to buy coffee, Debbie had her lovely car and the BSO drove a Pontiac. In a single year she earned as CO FSO an outstanding sum and when some of those over-regged people attempted to claw back money or get financial aid, she instead ordered them to ethics. Not COB, she did.

In addition to this, Debbie when confronted with the massive budget crisis rather than cut the luxury expenses of Flag for it's executives, instead ordered all staff to have 2 minutes showers to reduce costs and then had the FSO Accountant find ways of cutting costs - his solution which she approved was to cut red meat from the diet of all staff. She of course, ate rather well. She herself had her quarters upgraded to what could only be called "a palace" even before she was married violating the rules on Sea Org Members having shared quarters until marriage. While other staff were made to do Clean Ship Project on Saturdays, Debbie instead had her communicator clean her place and she would go off and spend time driving.

Upgrades at the Hacienda gardens which were to be air conditioners during the punishing summers was instead handled with staff crammed into tighter quarters. FSO earning 60-70 million per week was "insufficient" to warrant the expense of $50,000 in air conditioners.

Debbie Cook herself knew and approved several persons onto OT VII who had known sex offenses against children and their own siblings and allowed them to proceed "if they donationed generous sums which oddly often included massive book purchases for "libraries" thus reaping commissions. Rather than reporting to the police or interpol what these scum bags actually did, they agreed to let them do ethics conditions instead. She knowingly approved and assisted in the hiding of several Sea Org staff who were sent from overseas locations who were the subject of attempts by their families to recover them. Her orders were to not allow any communications letters, phone calls or otherwise to get to them. Yes, I have names of those Sea Org Members. They were put on staff training programs.

Debbie herself played along with CMO to send over 100 staff on missions to Flag Land Base who were then told "Surprise, you are not going anywhere" when the Sea Org members complained that they were now thousands of miles from their children or spouses, Debbie had them thrown onto the decks as out-ethics and cut communication via telephones for those Sea Org Members. Many of them were given committee's of evidence or thrown into the RPF for defiance.

It was Debbie Cook more than CMO CW that ordered Beans and Rice which extended to budget cuts for Sea Org Children who received very poor quality food and Debbie made the point to argue "You're the parents, you pay for it," to those who complained. Easy for her to say.

Debbie Cook witnessed and allowed Sea Org children to be with COB during his visits for periods extending from 7AM to 2AM in the morning. She gladly "gave" sea org children over to COB in this respect. She approved the FLB budgets for rooms for COB and his staff in 4 apartments that cost more than the entire budget for 3 years for all staff food. the rooms consisted of imported rugs, marble form Italy and Spain and exercise equipment that was state-of-the-art at the time.

During COBs visits and also those of Missions from CMO Int often orders were issued for beans and rice as punishments, yet she ordered and allowed in the budget catered food from Flag Crew Restaurants for herself and the mission staff. Under Flag Order rule, for every mission sent into an organization, a staff member had to be given up as exchange for the mission. She did not want to give up her staff so allowed them to select a member of CMO Clearwater and in their place a child was talen from the cadet org (usually 12-14 years old) and put through training.

She herself often had meals ordered (with her lavish accounts) food from the restaurants at Flag while the others ate Beans and Rice. Debbie Cook with the Flag Land Base Finance Director approved all budgets and it was Debbie - not her executive team that had cut bedding, water supplies for showers, food, all medal expenses removed for staff and even orders for reduced electricity use on the rooms ordering "lights out". Staff with immigration issues were first asked to contact their families back home to obtain funds with the "promise" of a returning vacation. In 2 years Debbie from a staff of 1,500 approved less than 10 CSWs for people to take annual leave and the rest were denied - she did this.

She also knowingly had hundreds of OTs invited to Flag and knowing they were using all available credit and were in immense debt directly ordered them to ethics HERSELF if they did not give more. This happened when Sue, WDC FSO at the time came to Flag and ordered the Gross Income up. OTs were told to come to flag and were squeezed so hard Debbie had a specialist ethics team on hand to immediately put them on routing forms to ethics if they did not comply. In the same area where they were told to give they had HCO staff on hand with routing forms ready to route them.

So let's set the record very straight on Debbie Cook. Those who worked above her knew it which is why she was kept at the helm of Flag for so long. There were few Sea Org members capable of doing this with a straight face. I find it ironic that she would hold tears recalling the hole when she herself at Flag ordered SO MANY Sea Org members away from their kids onto decks with orders for no communication.

When the amnesties were announced her concern was the fact that there would be no more slave labor to build FSO and with CMO pushed to have exemptions issued so that RPFers could not leave the RPF. Such a compassionate lady.

She was brutal. Even most Messengers watched themselves even around her as she was not replaceable so she couldn't be screamed at particularly (although it still happened).

Any one defending her doesn't know Debbie Cook at all and is hearing Public Relations chatter. What Marty says COB does to staff is a crime and Debbie was almost as bad - they were pretty close in that respect - just ask her executive team, I am sure they can impart some horror stories that will make your hair stand on edge.

If you can excuse her behavior, I suggest to re-read it again and as with the information I provide it might take a year or two to verify it, but it will pan-out if you can find others with first hand experience working with or under her at FLAG and everything I have accounted for is first hand knowledge.

.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron

Woah, at first I read that as "gave" in the molestation sense, but after reading I think it's just in the servitude sense and working them terrible hours. Like LRH had his children messengers holding his ashtrays and stupid child servant shit. DM prolly thought he deserved just what LR) had, fucking child slaves to take care of his every whim and order.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
<snip>

Speer dedicated himself to selling the image of the "good nazi" - both at Nuremburg and after his release from prison. Don't get me wrong, he was a brilliant man but extremely calculating and cunning when it came to saving his own skin after the war and rehabilitating his public image (he soon realized an apologia for the regime was a lost cause, but his own personal mea culpa and pleading ignorance could do much to polish his name in the history books.)

<snip>

Your entire posting is very well written and totally accurate. Real good!! :yes:

I'm a bit knowledgeable about German history because of my family background.

My litmus test for ex-SO executives and others is the question made famous during the Watergate era:

"What did you know and when did you know it?"

DM and Pat Broeker (and other members of the Int Exec team) promulgated a decades-long coverup by lying about 1.) LRH's final years, 2.) his health and demise, and of course, 3.) the missing upper OT levels (just to mention a few things off of a very long list) from 1986 going forward.

They had a chance to come clean about LRH in 1986 and clear the air. They chose not to.

Marty and Mike left in the mid-2000's and tried to distance themselves from this "tight conspiracy," thinking it would absolve them from all their sins perhaps. (I would say like Speer.) But I would simply ask both of them:

"What did you know and when did you know it?"

For me, the jury is still out on those two guys and a few others. I have my own suspicions about Marty and Mike's ongoing collusion for two decades. :whistling:

(I guess I'd need to put them on a meter to really find out.) :biggrin:

It's one thing to get tricked or conned, but then you find out the truth and you do the right thing and walk away. You don't forward the lie.

I left a high paying corporate job with perks and a penthouse office after giving a two week notice many years ago. I discovered criminal activities going on in the company. Financial fraud, in my opinion, if not positively actionable by the justice system.

I found out. I left. It wasn't easy, but I wasn't gonna have that blood on my hands. Many clients losing real money.

I found out about significant and unconscionable financial fraud in Scientology and I left within two months. Twenty years ago.

That's what you do.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
throw-money-into-the-air.png


Debbie Cook Today *





*Sorry, I can't help myself from dragging out that image again. :biggrin:

Maybe I need professional help to stop the urge. :wink2:

Scientology has such unfair (and humorous) outcomes sometimes.
 
.
.

It's tricky......how do we decide about accountability issues when we know or suspect that someone may be guilty (sorry if that's a judgemental word) :) of crimes (ooops! there's another one) such as, immigration crimes, fraud crimes, violations of human rights, abuse of minors, - not just cover-ups of sexual abuse, but including food, work hours, education, etc,
and abuse of adults, via RPF, work demands etc.......

Even if I ignore the recent post which alleges things about Debbie Cook, we all know these things are what life in the SO is like.

So how do we decide?
Do we look at the info, and if it's a scientologist or ex-scio say "to hell with the law, I identify with him/her because I was in the cult" so THIS person gets a free pass, compared to say, someone who does the same things but has not been in the cult. A bubble for the inside and a bubble for the outside. Enough for a bubble bath. Wash everything in the bubble bath. Even wash the brain in the bubble path. Nice and clean!
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron

I'd love to see what Debbie herself has to say about this.

But, as she seems to be gagged by her agreement with the cult, I guess that day's not going to come soon.

My experience with her was 1987-89, before this went down. It's hard to reconcile my experiences with this, but I've seen enough folk turn into total a-holes within exec ranks to believe it is highly probable that Debbie did turn into a McSavage mini-me.:bigcry:
 
I'd love to see what Debbie herself has to say about this.

But, as she seems to be gagged by her agreement with the cult, I guess that day's not going to come soon.

My experience with her was 1987-89, before this went down. It's hard to reconcile my experiences with this, but I've seen enough folk turn into total a-holes within exec ranks to believe it is highly probable that Debbie did turn into a McSavage mini-me.:bigcry:


I think that (bolded) is one part of the 'issues" that people have about people who were in similar positions to her. Apart from the crime issues, and apart from the moral/ethical issues, or what anyone should or shouldn't have done, there is a more basic issue of what are they saying, are they saying ANYTHING? If it is about forgiveness (which it isn't for me, but it could be for someone directly affected) - if it is about forgiveness, or understanding, then just TALKING!! would probably go a long way to 'dealing with' it. Not talking is probably safer though if talking could lead to incrimination....and she did say she knows where the bodies are buried. To me it is not ethical to just shut up and not ask someone who makes that statement, to elaborate.
 

TKN

New Member
Wow, yeah, I guess I'd sort of presumed much of that, but it's very different to hear it said by someone who observed it. Particularly the part about child molestation.

And, again, I want to reiterate, she lied under oath in a death/murder investigation. Lest my sympathies be seen as pollyanna, I sincerely hope that she is called under oath in any upcoming case and has to testify. About any of this written by the OCMB poster above (ESPECIALLY crimes against children and holding foreign nationals hostage), but also to correct her probably perjurous testimony from the Lisa McPherson case.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
..snipped...

Truth be told, At Nuremberg the Americans helped him a bit since they had a vested interest in having a "decent Nazi" to point to for the American public, a way to show they weren all evil mosters - just some. Behind the scenes geopolitics were already realigning and we needed Germany as an ally against the (allies of last year) Soviets. It wasn't going to be easy to get the Americans to change their views of Germans in general, but Speer's"good Nazi" performance and the "we didn't know" defense of millions of Germans helped move it along.

...snipped...

Absolutely. And another reason the American gov't needed to develop good PR on a "decent Nazi" was because NASA was being loaded up with Nazi scientists. The rocket development was headed by Nazi Werner von Braun. If it weren't for all the Nazi scientists then NASA would have had to wait much longer for the successes of the 1950s and 1960s. I doubt NASA would have sent anything to the Moon by the late 60s. Probably mid to late 70s without ol' Werner and Co.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Wow, yeah, I guess I'd sort of presumed much of that, but it's very different to hear it said by someone who observed it. Particularly the part about child molestation.

And, again, I want to reiterate, she lied under oath in a death/murder investigation. Lest my sympathies be seen as pollyanna, I sincerely hope that she is called under oath in any upcoming case and has to testify. About any of this written by the OCMB poster above (ESPECIALLY crimes against children and holding foreign nationals hostage), but also to correct her probably perjurous testimony from the Lisa McPherson case.


If it's true and is proved that anyone was involved in the molestation (or any form of abuse) towards children, I'd be the first to say I hope they rot in hell but that they go there via the legal system not some silly culty "ethics" system.




:yes:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
If it's true and is proved that anyone was involved in the molestation (or any form of abuse) towards children, I'd be the first to say I hope they rot in hell but that they go there via the legal system not some silly culty "ethics" system.


:yes:

I'm curious if a new poster who came here last month (trying to remember her name, her mom & step dad were SO and still are, she ran away from cult in late teens but was raised in SO environs.) She stated she was molested as a child at Flag in the early 90s and her molestation being uncovered led to an internal investigation at flag - where ppl were thrown into ethics for raping kids but no police or any real actions taken.

I bet she could shed some light on it - from the victims perspective.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=721052#p721052

From MirnaMinkoff on OCMB re: previously posted story and her source.

EDIT: Before anyone pipes up about it - the person who wrote the statement DID talk to the FBI several years ago. They gave a complete in-person interview to an agent about the above matters. They didn't particularly want to go public with their stories but did want something to be done by the legal system. I can't say either way what was or wasn't done with the information because I don't know. The only thing I do know is they took particular interest in the human trafficking aspect above all other matters.
[STRIKE]Interesting detail confirmed.[/STRIKE]

Interesting unsubstantiated gossip added to the story. :whistling:
 
Last edited:

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
. . .
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=721052#p721052

From MirnaMinkoff on OCMB re: previously posted story and her source.


Interesting detail confirmed.

OK - are YOU confirming that this happened? What is your confirmation based on?

The reason I ask is that if *you* are not confirming it then it remains just what someone who wrote it says someone else did. An anonymous someone else. I am not saying it is true or untrue but at this point is is an apocryphal story.

That's not actually confirmation of anything
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
There is no justification for being a staff member and doing horrible things to other people. I was on staff a couple of times (Cl V Orgs) - never finished my contracts because I couldn't stand the control BS and out-tech. One very high profile org I was on staff at did some horrible things. I wrote up KR after KR but the ED was just like the cult leader, evil. I kept getting attacked mercilessly, so I left.

I have a friend who knows the lawyer that helps some of the sea org when they leave. Debbie did get a settlement (no idea how much) after the court appearance debacle. When the high profile sea org leave, and the church is paying out some serious cash, part of the settlement includes leaving the country for a period of time - Debbie went to Mexico.

I very much admire Mike & Marty for not taking a settlement and doing what they are doing. The cult needs to be attacked and destroyed.

Actually, Debbie went to a number of places, including Guadeloupe (a Caribbean French island), Mexico, and the Bahamas before returning to the US.

Also, you said: "When the high profile sea org leave, and the church is paying out some serious cash, part of the settlement includes leaving the country for a period of time ...." This doesn't seem to be the rule at all (based on my observations). The cult has made cash settlements on other ex-SO who are US citizens (e.g., Terri Gamboa who moved to Las Vegas) who've stayed in the USA and never left "for a period of time."
 
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