ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender & Queer as a 3 Dollar Bill

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by outlawgal, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. outlawgal

    outlawgal Patron

    I'm old time Sea Org -- joined up in 1970, left in late 1981. I was BIG time in the closet, and I really wanted to be CURED :omg: of all my yummy, pervy, happy-go-lucky sex and gender leanings and fantasies. But dear daddy Ron said no, no, no. :banned: So, I spent session after session trying to cure myself. Sigh.:scared:

    Once I left, it was no holds barred. I mean, wheeeeeeee, wahooooooo, yippeeeeeeeeee! Well, no it wasn't right after I left. Right after I left, I gave one more try at marriage --I'd been married twice in the Sea Org. Marriage #3 didn't make me straight either. So, I joined AA, got myself sober and it hit me like a ton o' bricks -- I'M SO FREAKIN' QUEER AND THAT AIN'T BAD CUZ THERE'S LOTS OF US!!!!! :thewave:

    I came out about two years after I left. This was the mid-80's, just after the start of the AIDS plague. The queer newspapers had 3-4 pages of obituaries every week. Sad, hard times. :bigcry:

    Long story short --- today, I yam an extremely happy, happy-go-lucky high femme dyke. :omg: I'm a sadomasochist, :whipped: (emphasis on masochist) AND I'm transsexual -- male to female. :neener: I've got piercings in body parts I wasn't born with. I'm a tattooed lady. I don't call myself a man, and I don't call myself a woman. Just like a thetan in native state, I ain't got no gender. :giggle:

    And that's how I saved my life after I left the Sea Org. While I was aboard the flagship, there were a BUNCH of lesbians and gay men and bisexuals. There may have been some other trannies -- I dunno. We were all deeply closeted, because (of course) we were 1.1 on the tone scale, and a true danger to anyone around us. We rarely came out to each other. :nervous:

    So... I'm starting this thread to hear from other ex-scilons who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, and heterosexual allies. I wanna hear from sex workers, sex educators... hell, anyone who considers themselves sex positive and/or fluidly gendered.
    :party:
    Didja come out after scn? Are you questioning yer sexuality? Having fun with it? Messing around with gender?

    Here's the first nugget I wanna toss out on the subject:

    Thetans have no gender, right? SO WHAT'S THE BIG FREAKIN' DEAL ABOUT SEX AND GENDER?!?!?!?! How did fun sex and delightful gender end up as covert hostility???????

    There. I'm done. I'm truly looking forward to hearing from ya. :welcome:

    kiss kiss

    outlaw
     
  2. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

  3. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    Outlaw, you totally rock :bow:

    The sexuality issue is very odd in scientology. I prefer the kama sutra's attitude to it :D
     
  4. free1996

    free1996 Patron with Honors

    I was brainwashed against gays

    When I was in the S.O in Los Angeles of all places. The land of the mix. I remember my mom giving me the gay/trans education. She had been a model before the S.O during the '70's and had bad experiences with them as she felt they were confused and angry and in turn they thought she was the one who was bias and hateful. I never knew anyone that was gay when I was in as I had already been brainwashed that their was no gays in Scientology as it was abberated and unethical.
    Then of course what you resist, you pull in. The lady that my mom so trusted with her life and her kids for over 15 years had been a lesbian!!! My mom about fell of her rocker. She asked me all kinds of questions-and NO SHE DIDN"T DO ANYTHING TO ME. I'm sorry people have this idea if gay people are around you they will make you gay. She was the best women I had ever known, she was my mom for many of my young years. And yes I saw her with a "Friend" but I didn't know the difference as they didn't rub my face in it.
    I've been out of Scientology for a while, I opened my heart and mind and now have some of the most wonderful friends that are gay.Some of the funniest moments of my life have been hanging out with them. It's not my cup of tea, even thought sometimes I'm sick of men. And of course, I have one friend who is bi-sexual that has offered if I ever the need.
     
  5. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    A warm welcome outlawgal. :flowers:

    I was a bigoted "gays are all 1.1" indoctrinated twat when I was in scientology.

    I had this job and a guy I worked closely with was gay. He was terrific - so alive and all things good. I found him not the least bit 1.1 (& you gotta believe I was on the look out for his 1.1 side. lol) Totally caring person and very supportive team player in the work environment. We used to meet outside of work hours. I kept this very quiet from my scientology "life". He & I would sit for hours talking, drinking coffee/wine, listening to music, etc. No 1.1 ever.

    This confused me as I was heavily indoctrinated on this crap.

    Last year I had the pleasure of closely spending time with another terrific person is who gay. Once again I found myself in the company of a warm, caring, smart, super witty man. By that time I had moved well away from the scientology indoctrination and contact with the group so I was able to relax and just enjoy this person with all the colour that made him who he was. He is one of the most interesting people I've met in ages.

    This "all homosexuals are 1.1" isn't true. By my very own observations and experiences.

    The sexual side of the indoctrination of hubbard is wild. IMO, it all boils down to hubbard's own madness & skewered view of the world. Plus I now believe he used sex/sexuality as one of his many mind control techniques.
     
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    With your own Wikipedia entry too, outlawgal. :)

    (I posted the link but changed my mind.)

    Paul
     
  7. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    John McMaster, the first Clear (officially) was gay.

    The CofS used to be much more tolerant of gays than they are now. If Pilot is any guide, there was a time in the 60s when even straight SO staffers would go to bed with other staffers of the same gender in order to "get their TRs in."

    There was a staff member at Plymouth Org when I was there in the mid-80s, Diane Ralph, who was gay and it was tolerated despite her somewhat turbulent relationship with her live in partner (I've seen her turn up at the Org with a black eye).

    I don't know how or why the policy changed, perhaps it was because of HIV/Aids.

    BTW, I liked Diane and we had some good laughs despite the insanities surrounding us. I'd like to know what she's up to now.
     
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    To make a song and dance about it....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokey_Cokey

    You put your TRs in, your TRs out
    In, out, in, out, and shake it all about
    You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
    That's what it's all about

    Whohhhhhh, the Hokey Cokey
    Whohhhhhh, the Hokey Cokey
    Whohhhhhh, the Hokey Cokey
    In out, in out, you shake it all about

    You put your....

    Paul
     
  9. DartSmohen

    DartSmohen Silver Meritorious Patron

    I do not know where "The Pilot" got his data from, maybe that was the case in LA. I know that there was a GAY THETA Club out there because one of their shirtlifting fraternity was over at St Hill and bragged about it.

    From what I remember, this was not the case in the SO (Apart from John Mac, Colin Cormie and Aristotle the tailor).

    Nor do I remember any of the male staff sharing a bed with other male staff "to get their TR's in".

    Was The Pilot getting some of his own w/h's off?:whistling: :whistling: :eyeroll:
     
  10. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Welcome outlawgal! :happydance:
     
  11. outlawgal

    outlawgal Patron

    Scn vs Kama Sutra

    Luv you too, LNS (not that way! i barely know you!)

    Oh golly, yes. I'd tried the Kama Sutra in the 60s, in college. Darn near broke my, um, equipment doing a position called "The Wagon Wheel." :giggle:

    Nowadays, I get a lot of use out of a book called "Urban Tantra: Sacred Sex for the 21st Century." Fun, practical advice for anyone, no matter their orientation or gender.

    So yeah -- sexuality in scientology is odd indeed. Oxymoronic even.
     
  12. outlawgal

    outlawgal Patron

    Posting Links to Li'l Ol' Me

    Oh THANK you, Paul. I figgered it wouldn't be too difficult for folks to find out who I yam, and yeah -- it's a hoot about my Wikipedia page. But thanks for not posting a link to my name here. I'm not all that comfortable yet with the scilons reading it and aiming their guns at such an easy target as me.

    BUT .... if anyone wants to PM me and ask me ANYTHING AT ALL ... please do feel free. I've always enjoyed the company of other outlaws, and every SP on this board qualifies as one of those. :love11:

    outlaw
     
  13. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I'll post a question, outlaw. I think I saw you once in your former life when you came on mission to Saint Hill, and remember what you looked like, and the idea of girly communication from you makes me squirm. Just my prejudices. :)

    Anyway, one thing I am curious about. I don't know any transgendered people in the UK, although I knew one in the US and saw many on Hollywood Blvd. when I worked there. It seems to me that the average height of male-to-female cross-dressers (I don't know about the anatomy of these people) was way greater than the norm. I mean, I don't recall seeing one single man dressing as a woman who was, say, 5'8" tall or shorter. Some could have escaped my notice, I suppose, but the ones I saw all seemed to be HUGE. Any comment?

    Paul
     
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I wonder how much of that might be due to just not noticing? After all, for the notice to even come up, you would need some kind of 'anomalous' trigger.

    Zinj
     
  15. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    I know biologists and now we know Hubbard was no biologist!

    Way I see it; it’s actually a 3 step processes about that that’s going on here, that goes something like;

    1. When the little sack fills up with fluid, it feels good when you empty it. (basic biology)
    2. Different strokes for different folks. (as always I reserve the right to RSPV, or not , the invitation)
    3. The heterosexuals shall inherit the earth.

    Continue steps 1 ~ 3 until the next asteroid smashes into the earth!

    :)
     
  16. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'm not so sure about #3. Although there does seem to be some kind of genetic element to sexual identity/gender preference etc. just about everythng on the continuum seems to come up on any genetic line.

    On the other hand; #4 The polymorphous perverse are already enjoying the earth.

    Zinj
     
  17. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Thanks for starting this thread, outlaw gal. Its an interesting subject indeed. (Although I still havent figured out which gender is on your birth cert... doesnt really matter).

    Anyways, while in the SO, I was married and that went well for me. But at the same time, I was attracted sexually to my best friend, a female. I just thought it was odd and it was me. Nothing ever happened with that in the Sea Org.

    Anyways, after my divorce, I did experiment with someone of my same sex. It was interesting and not some huge aweful thing.

    I cant say that it converted me. I went back to opposite sex. Really, I dont know.

    It did get me an SP declare though.

    -----

    But just because someone has a different sexual orientation, does not mean they are going to rub off on you. And that seems to be what the think is somehow. Weird.

    Straights dont rub off on homosexuals, so why would it be the other way around? Hmm? I dont think sexual orientation is contagious or heriditary.

    And I have worked with homosexuals several times and I like them. I find them interesting and fun to be around.

    Actually I am going to a transexual fashion show next week. First one. I think it would be hilariously fun. I have to bring one dollar bills with me apparently for tips!!

    Free your mind!!!
     
  18. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    Great post outlaw! Well I did post something before but it may have been missed, and seeing that you're asking, here goes. When I first got into the 'church', I had the usual orders to write up a life history, then after that there was the sec checks etc. Now in amougst all of my 'crimes', was a relationship I'd had with another woman years before. For me, it was totally normal, I don't label myself or do I label others, my view is and always has been that love is love no matter what form it takes and just because I just happened to fall in love with another woman was no big deal to me, however, you cannot believe the way I was treated. I was initially sent to ethics, I was treated like some sexually depraved scumbag, and what was worse, was that this information got around the org like wildfire, I was accused of 'out2D' and this stuck for the next ten years.

    This whole thing traumatized me so much that I actually allowed them to convince me there was something wrong with me and I've not had a relationship with a woman since. Not that I look mind you, I wouldn't even say they are my preference, as I said, love is love, but it's a coincidence none the less and I'm so glad you brought it up as I'm now wondering what would have been in the last twenty years of my life without that level of invalidation rammed down my neck.

    The thing is though, that the 'out2D' thing followed me throughout my time in scientology right until the very last day! They used this against me every single time I got into trouble without fail, and looking back, I realize my mistake was to react and to protest, because they had found, well actually they had created, a 'button' in me that they knew how to push. The fact that people used to look at me horrified and in disgust, smashed any confidence I had, they made me feel dirty, but of course, like a good little scientologist, I put up with it. But it just goes to show how insidious these pigs really are, they use what they feel is wrong, and create a situation where there is none and make you feel like shit.

    I agree with you fully that a thetan as you call it or spirit or who you 'really' are has no sex, the sex part is just the body, and no, I don't know either what the big deal is, but I know one thing, I possibly missed out on some really hot experiences.

    Anyway, thanks for the great post and good for you! :thumbsup:
     
  19. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Cause only those things that others can easily experience, and be able to experience ANYTHING your self?

    Two rules for a happy life....violated by the fanatics in the church.

    alex (who sometimes self describes as bisexual although currently faithful to one person for over 20 years)
     
  20. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    Good observation about # 4!

    #3 is pretty solid ... To stay connected to the continuum requires a male connector into a female connector on the wall telephone jack, connected through m/f connectors at the DSL modem, connected to the m/f of the wireless.

    Then at the same time there's that thing about the m/f of the AC wall outlet providing DC to the laptop through another m/f connector!

    What are the monomorphus to do?

    :)