Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

I don't see that. The matter before the court, as I understood it, was the Co$ attempt to get a Preliminary Injunction (which would have extended the terms of the Temporary Restraining Order) for the duration of the time passing between now and when the lawsuit, accusing Debbie of violating the original NDA, goes to trial.

That time period could be short, could be long -- who knows!

But MEANWHILE, the original NDA is still in force, is it not? That original NDA has not been invalidated or withdrawn, has it?

mrinder seems to think that elwood, who brought that up, has m/u's. I think mrinder has m/u's.

And most of the commenters are celebrating like the NDA itself has been withdrawn, proved invalid, etc. and I think that's not so.

other opinions or comments?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

I don't see that. The matter before the court, as I understood it, was the Co$ attempt to get a Preliminary Injunction (which would have extended the terms of the Temporary Restraining Order) for the duration of the time passing between now and when the lawsuit, accusing Debbie of violating the original NDA, goes to trial.

That time period could be short, could be long -- who knows!

But MEANWHILE, the original NDA is still in force, is it not? That original NDA has not been invalidated or withdrawn, has it?

mrinder seems to think that elwood, who brought that up, has m/u's. I think mrinder has m/u's.

And most of the commenters are celebrating like the NDA itself has been withdrawn, proved invalid, etc. and I think that's not so.

other opinions or comments?

Only that it would be nice to have some definitive information/news about it.

Anyone?
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Only that it would be nice to have some definitive information/news about it.

Anyone?

If you look at the official CoS response, they say that the outcome of the recent hearing will enable them to get summary judgement when the actual case comes to trial.

This seems like an indication that they are at least still posturing like they are going ahead with the legal action. Have not seen anything official-ish that indicates otherwise.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

I don't see that. The matter before the court, as I understood it, was the Co$ attempt to get a Preliminary Injunction (which would have extended the terms of the Temporary Restraining Order) for the duration of the time passing between now and when the lawsuit, accusing Debbie of violating the original NDA, goes to trial.

That time period could be short, could be long -- who knows!

But MEANWHILE, the original NDA is still in force, is it not? That original NDA has not been invalidated or withdrawn, has it?

mrinder seems to think that elwood, who brought that up, has m/u's. I think mrinder has m/u's.

And most of the commenters are celebrating like the NDA itself has been withdrawn, proved invalid, etc. and I think that's not so.

other opinions or comments?

the hearing was about the TRO not the NDA.

If the Cofs has terminated the NDA there has been no release about it that I have seen.

The only announcement of termination was the termination of the TRO.

AFAIK the next stage is the CoFS lawsuit for breach of the NDA - and, as the cofs is proceeding with THAT this would seem to indicate that the NDA is still in force.

Could be that Rinder has his head up his ass.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

I don't see that. The matter before the court, as I understood it, was the Co$ attempt to get a Preliminary Injunction (which would have extended the terms of the Temporary Restraining Order) for the duration of the time passing between now and when the lawsuit, accusing Debbie of violating the original NDA, goes to trial.

That time period could be short, could be long -- who knows!

But MEANWHILE, the original NDA is still in force, is it not? That original NDA has not been invalidated or withdrawn, has it?

mrinder seems to think that elwood, who brought that up, has m/u's. I think mrinder has m/u's.

And most of the commenters are celebrating like the NDA itself has been withdrawn, proved invalid, etc. and I think that's not so.

other opinions or comments?

Yes, the NDA is still in force. Nothing canceled/nullified that, the outcome of last week's proceedings are just that the restraining/gag order was dropped. The way I understand it, she can discuss anything that's already on the public record, which is how she was able to give a press conference on Friday. Also there was some clarification made by the judge that there is nothing legally to prevent Debbie from speaking with her attorney, consultants and witnesses. But the NDA is still in play.

They're celebrating prematurely in the Indie-verse, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I want there to be cause for celebration! But last week's hearing was just that - trial is still to come. The church is of course going to move for summary judgement because they'll try like hell to pretend all the rest doesn't make any difference to their "simple contract violation". I hope and pray the judge who presides has some good sense and a conscience and decides that enough is enough with the cult manipulating the legal system to do its dirty work.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I'm gonna join in the kudos for Synthia, since the opportunity has arisen.

Anyone who's managed to go from being a scientologist a year and a half or so ago to where Synthia is today, able to confront the real truth out there (not just the easy to digest, on a gradient, what I'm comfortable reading at this pt. Truth) Then change their viewpoint to the realistic, no bullshit, hard truth about Scientology; then continue on by being here posting, debating and reading to learn even more - has my utmost respect.

There would be a lot less frustration on ESMB if the people who finally leave the CoS had the mental fortitude and courage of Synthia. (and other awesome chicks like Emma.) rather than having taking the first step, then stopping in Martyland because it comfortable and soothes the ego.

The truth can set you free if you will accept it, not just look for something that's psychological comfortable.


Cool post!

Something really struck me while reading it.

Imagine "leaving Scientology" as a sporting event that is begun with a starting pistol and a stopwatch, like an Olympic event.

The person "leaves" Scientology the very moment the shot cracks the air. The microseconds start furiously ticking away.

Now, let's take 2 different runners, Synthia and let's say someone over at Martyland. They both take off running at full speed--away from Scientology.

They both have a computer and access to the internet.

The same internet.

Then what happens?

Synthia reads the internet.

And the other person "reads the internet" but really they don't.

They couldn't pass a star-rate checkout on what they read if their life depended on it. Which it does.

After a short while Synthia has lapped the Indie Scientologist, sometimes going right by them running backwards and chatting with them about Scientology each time she passes by. LOL

I mean, really! WTF internet are these other folks reading?!?!?!!!!!

It must be that other Internet. :hysterical:

Rock on Syn girl, you win a Gold Medal and some other valuable junk for the crazy speed that you escaped.


EDIT: .....and the other difference is that Syn figured out unbelievably fast that the running track the race was on circled Scientology...it did not lead away from Scientology. Thus, she ran off the "track" and out of the stadium to visit the rest of the world. The Indie runner continues circling the track for a billion years, a race that never ends. Kinda like one of those Scientologists out in the desert at Hemet in the 106 degree heat, running around a tree all day in order to attain total freedom.
 
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Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

I don't see that.

I believe you are correct, olska. The recent denial of Scn Inc's request for an injunction just means they can't gag Ms. Cook while the matter is undecided. While this is not an ultimate victory for Cook concerning her potential liability for violating the NDA, it is a good sign. One of the requirements for granting a preliminary injunction is the court's determination that success of the substantive case (NDA action) is likely based on the facts at hand. That's why the court allowed testimony of Cook's abuse - it will be the determining factor as to whether she signed the NDA "voluntarily" or under duress (and yes, for these purposes, "we're gonna make you lick the floor" will suffice if Ms. Cook reasonably believed they were serious).

Apparently, after hearing all the testimony, the court concluded that Scn Inc's success with this case was not shown to be likely, but denial of the motion should not be construed as a statement that Scn Inc is unlikely to succeed on the merits of the case.

Basically, the court merely said, "We'll gag Cook if and when Scn Inc can prove its breach of contract claim".

The four basic rerquirements for preliminary injunction are (from Wikipedia):
  1. That there is a substantial likelihood of success on the merits of the case,
  2. That they face a substantial threat of irreparable damage or injury if the injunction is not granted,
  3. That the balance of harms weighs in favor of the party seeking the preliminary injunction
  4. That the grant of an injunction would serve the public interest.
Certainly, if Cook continues to talk, #2 is satisfied. Since Cook's statements could play a large part in destroying Scn Inc as we know it, I'd say #3 is satisfied as well. That leaves #1 and #4 as the possible reasons for denial of the motion, and either way that bodes well for Ms. Cook, but it is not decisive of the outcome.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Briefly looked through the comments on Marty's blog. Near the end, the question is brought up -- has the Co$ withdrawn the NDA? and some people seem to think yes.

The NDA contract that Debbie & Wayne signed remains in effect. The cult's decision to drop out of the TRO hearing legally enabled D & W to participate in the media interview with their attorney. Note that they haven't said anything to the media since, and I suspect they won't. They will address any future questions through their attorney, because the civil lawsuit remains in effect.

If the cult had withdrawn the NDA, they would have cancelled the lawsuit against Debbie. They didn't.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I'm gonna join in the kudos for Synthia, since the opportunity has arisen.

Anyone who's managed to go from being a scientologist a year and a half or so ago to where Synthia is today, able to confront the real truth out there (not just the easy to digest, on a gradient, what I'm comfortable reading at this pt. Truth) Then change their viewpoint to the realistic, no bullshit, hard truth about Scientology; then continue on by being here posting, debating and reading to learn even more - has my utmost respect.

There would be a lot less frustration on ESMB if the people who finally leave the CoS had the mental fortitude and courage of Synthia. (and other awesome chicks like Emma.) rather than having taking the first step, then stopping in Martyland because it comfortable and soothes the ego.

The truth can set you free if you will accept it, not just look for something that's psychological comfortable.

Me too - Synthia you are an awesome poster and, apparently one awesome individual. Keep posting keep arguing and thinking and talking - not only does it help YOU, it helps those who cannot post yet.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Me too - Synthia you are an awesome poster and, apparently one awesome individual. Keep posting keep arguing and thinking and talking - not only does it help YOU, it helps those who cannot post yet.


iStock_thank_you_flower_resized.jpg

Thank you, Mick. Shall do.​
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
The NDA contract that Debbie & Wayne signed remains in effect. The cult's decision to drop out of the TRO hearing legally enabled D & W to participate in the media interview with their attorney. Note that they haven't said anything to the media since, and I suspect they won't. They will address any future questions through their attorney, because the civil lawsuit remains in effect.

If the cult had withdrawn the NDA, they would have cancelled the lawsuit against Debbie. They didn't.

Thanks for clarifying that, Smurf. The folks over on Marty's blog are rejoicing that the CoS has withdrawn completely and that the NDA has been invalidated. That's not how I understood the current state of affairs and when I asked the question I got slapped down. Marty is allowing his sycophants to believe it's all over. Maybe, but I doubt it. As I posted on OCMB, unless the cult pursues the civil suit to a final conclusion or Debbie countersues to the same end, the status of the NDA remains unresolved. All she has accomplished so far is to free herself up to discuss her case and prepare her legal defense. Also, is it your understanding that the cult sued both Debbie and Wayne or just Debbie?
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Thanks for clarifying that, Smurf. The folks over on Marty's blog are rejoicing that the CoS has withdrawn completely and that the NDA has been invalidated. That's not how I understood the current state of affairs and when I asked the question I got slapped down. Marty is allowing his sycophants to believe it's all over.

Also, is it your understanding that the cult sued both Debbie and Wayne or just Debbie?

Many of the Independents suck up to Marty for their own reasons.. a case of "they've left the cult, but the cult hasn't left them".

If you access this link.. https://apps.bexar.org/dklitsearch/search.aspx .. and search the cause number.. 2012CI01272.. you'll see both Debbie & Wayne were sued.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for clarifying that, Smurf. The folks over on Marty's blog are rejoicing that the CoS has withdrawn completely and that the NDA has been invalidated. That's not how I understood the current state of affairs and when I asked the question I got slapped down. Marty is allowing his sycophants to believe it's all over. Maybe, but I doubt it. As I posted on OCMB, unless the cult pursues the civil suit to a final conclusion or Debbie countersues to the same end, the status of the NDA remains unresolved. All she has accomplished so far is to free herself up to discuss her case and prepare her legal defense. Also, is it your understanding that the cult sued both Debbie and Wayne or just Debbie?

Both have been sued, but IMO Wayne's just being shot due to proximity, he really isn't the focus. Debbie's the one they want to stfu.

I read the comments at Marty's and idk, maybe part of it is to taunt DM/provoke DM/attack his ego game that is frequently played there. They're exaggerating the events and taking big leaps. I've read everything on the net so far on this case, several times over, and the facts are: Church withdrew its motion for TRO and has stated that it intends to move for a summary judgement.

That's all that has happened so far in the legal arena. NDA is still a factor or there would be nothing on which to move for a summary judgement!

Just keep your salt shaker handy while you're reading that blog.

You know, take it with a grain of salt. :)
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Both have been sued, but IMO Wayne's just being shot due to proximity, he really isn't the focus. Debbie's the one they want to stfu.

That's true. Wayne, allegedly, sent some angry emails to cult attorney's using Debbie's email account where he admitted helping send out the email, so they sued him, too.

But, Debbie has the dirt that can help bury Miscavige.
 

Sindy

Crusader
<snip of some really cool stuff that I loved, thank you>

I mean, really! WTF internet are these other folks reading?!?!?!!!!!

[/I]

Doesn't it seriously make you wonder what "truth" certain people were going after when getting into Scientology?

Seems that people get in seeking truth and get stuck in some weird Scientology amusement park.

Before getting into Scientology, I was a rebel. I did a lot of drugs, I'll admit, and got into some trouble. I hung out with the "cool kids" that weren't buying a bunch of BS.

That's what I thought Scientology was too! Sheesh.

Scientology turned a bunch of hippies and rebellious folks into dullards. Walk into any org during an event (with the exception of maybe CC INT which is its own other kind of world) and you'll see a crowd of overweight, pasty white, embarrassingly dorky people who have lost their way.

Some have forgotten why they ever came. Some were never there for truth in the first place but simply for some self improvement. Some found refuge in a group of people who were obligated to validate them where they otherwise might be misfits in the real world. Some got in through WISE and many of those were status seekers.

I'm now sure that "finding truth" was/is not the central theme for getting into Scientology so when some people leave, truth will not be what they seek as they never wanted it in the first place.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Thanks for clarifying that, Smurf. The folks over on Marty's blog are rejoicing that the CoS has withdrawn completely and that the NDA has been invalidated. That's not how I understood the current state of affairs and when I asked the question I got slapped down. Marty is allowing his sycophants to believe it's all over. Maybe, but I doubt it. As I posted on OCMB, unless the cult pursues the civil suit to a final conclusion or Debbie countersues to the same end, the status of the NDA remains unresolved. All she has accomplished so far is to free herself up to discuss her case and prepare her legal defense. Also, is it your understanding that the cult sued both Debbie and Wayne or just Debbie?


The folks in MartyWorld are just drinking koolaid faster than Marty can serve it. It's a massive circle jerk..."Oh Marty you're so great...Mike you're our hero...Mosey, oh Mosey aren't you just married to the greatest guy in the world?.....Debbie is a Goddess!!!!....we're ALL just so great!!....We are KSW to the Max!!!....Long live LRH our saviour!!!...The Tech Rulz.....We won, We won, We won.....Oh ah oh ah oh ahhhhhhhhhhhhh......"

Okay, having a little fun. The lawsuit is definitely still ON. Unless DM decides to withdraw it, it is all systems go. When you really listen to the Lawyer Spencer on Friday he sounded pretty gung ho to proceed on to step 2, the suit over the NDA. He was very emphatic. If it's legally possible I believe they will add to the damages amount due to her testimony during the TRO hearing on Thurs. That was the impression I got from him. But they may not be able to go after her for that testimony. Someone else can probably address that here.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
That Marty Rathbun regards this fellow's comments as "hate" is telling, and significant, since Rathbun is setting the example for the other Independent Scientologists.

What Marty appears to be doing when he allows "hate" comments through, is attempting to informally train his followers as "Intel-PR Officers," who can interact with "SPs" and "DBs" without being shaken, and as high level "LRH Public Relations Officers," who can interact with the modern "wog" world of the Internet in the "information age" and, somehow, hold intact their Scientology conditioning and LRH fan club-ism, and encourage others to do so also. It's necessary for them to be exposed to a certain amount of "wog" and "SP" "entheta" to inoculate them, and build up their immunity to that "entheta."

They need to be able to watch videos such as this excerpt from a BBC program from over ten years ago, and rationalize it away, like any good Scientologists would, except that, now, in the "information age," their capacity for self-rationalization (to maintain their own stability as LRH fans) must be "moved on up a little higher."
.

Yes, that's why I posted those comments. You explain it well, thanks.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Cool post!

Something really struck me while reading it.

Imagine "leaving Scientology" as a sporting event that is begun with a starting pistol and a stopwatch, like an Olympic event.

The person "leaves" Scientology the very moment the shot cracks the air. The microseconds start furiously ticking away.

Now, let's take 2 different runners, Synthia and let's say someone over at Martyland. They both take off running at full speed--away from Scientology.

They both have a computer and access to the internet.

The same internet.

Then what happens?

Synthia reads the internet.

And the other person "reads the internet" but really they don't.

They couldn't pass a star-rate checkout on what they read if their life depended on it. Which it does.

After a short while Synthia has lapped the Indie Scientologist, sometimes going right by them running backwards and chatting with them about Scientology each time she passes by. LOL

I mean, really! WTF internet are these other folks reading?!?!?!!!!!

It must be that other Internet. :hysterical:

Rock on Syn girl, you win a Gold Medal and some other valuable junk for the crazy speed that you escaped.


EDIT: .....and the other difference is that Syn figured out unbelievably fast that the running track the race was on circled Scientology...it did not lead away from Scientology. Thus, she ran off the "track" and out of the stadium to visit the rest of the world. The Indie runner continues circling the track for a billion years, a race that never ends. Kinda like one of those Scientologists out in the desert at Hemet in the 106 degree heat, running around a tree all day in order to attain total freedom.

Love it! You posted a wonderful word picture... :thumbsup: :goodposting:
 
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