Meeting with OSA

[FoTi]

They will be taking pictures of you.....you won't see the camera.

They will be recording you....you won't see the recording equipment.

He may say, "I won't be recording you.", but keep in mind that even if he isn't recording you, someone else nearby will be....maybe from a van or car with equipment that can pick up from a distance....somehow, some way, they will record what is said at the meeting and take pictures of you.

DON'T GO ALONE.

 

[Pooks]

I worked for the GO/OSA for years and specifically with Paul Bradford. Paul is a very meek, friendly, non hostile kind of guy. His major job has always been a paper pusher for the GO/OSA and just goes about getting the job done without a lot of drama.

As far as I know he's a guy probably in his late 50's and has never been married. For all the time I knew him-- 25 years-- he never even dated.
Now that I look at it, Paul is probably a very nice gay man that's had his
sexually suppressed all these years. But that's just my personal opinion.

Don't for a minute think that he's there on his own, and is going to chat. Whatever Paul is going to say to you has been been discussed at length with his seniors and his "approach" and handling of you has all be approved of all the way up to OSA Int.

Paul has been drilled on what to say and how to say it. He has "targets" or goals that he is suppose to achieve at this meeting. Even though he says he's not taping you, I'd bet the ranch that he is. He's not going to have any problem lying to you, because you are an SP.

His main purpose is to try to get you to stop protesting. He wants to bring you to an understanding of why you should do this, he may be so bold as to try to get you to use your influence on Gregg to back off.

No matter what, it should be very interesting as you are a sharp cookie and will pretty much be able to see through his bullshit and oh so nicely point out the insanity of what he is saying.

Have fun!

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Wot Pooks said.

I'll also add that at a handling I had to go to, they had stuff written down, like if she says this, do that. They were consulting notes every step of the way.

 

[bluewiggirl]

Thanks Pooks, I value your opinion on this one a lot since you know the guy.

Voltaire: he actually did mention in his email that he wanted to bring a notebook, that's probably exactly what he'll be using it for. Thank you.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Record the Meeting

Get a compact high quality recorder and record it, then transcribe it to ESMB.

 

[MostlyLurker]

Expect some of the most subtle lies to show that they are good and Anon/Ex-scientologists are bad. He'll probably show you "dead agent" materials and if you ask for a copy he won't release them to you.

My first advice is to tape everything and tell him so.

My second advice is to go with someone, possibly an ex.

 

[FinallyFree]

I make sure they understand they have to answer to me, not the other way around. Just lay it out to them. QUOTE]

I strongly agree with this point. Remember, they are going into this meeting with absolute certainty that they have the ONLY answers that will ‘save man-kind’. They will go into this meeting as an authority. And authority specifically over *YOU*. Don’t let them. They are used to getting away with this for the most part. scientologists fear them to this day.

 

[Axiom142]

BWG,

I think you should be very careful. It goes without saying that you should not go alone. My advice is to have several friends and never be more than a shout for help away. I’d also advise recording the conversation (openly).

Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that he is a just deluded cultist who can’t think for himself and is not dangerous. He isn’t going to ‘just talk to you’, he will try and handle you. If he can’t do that, he might try and cave you in, just as George Baillie attempted with me. Don’t get into an argument, work out what you want to say and stick to it no matter how much he might try to distract you or trick you into saying something damaging (to yourself).

Good luck, but be very careful.

Axiom142

 

[FinallyFree]

On a Lighter Note

As far as I know he's a guy probably in his late 50's and has never been married. For all the time I knew him-- 25 years-- he never even dated.
Now that I look at it, Paul is probably a very nice gay man that's had his
sexually suppressed all these years. But that's just my personal opinion.

Hell if he is not gay what a temptation Blue would be! If he is gay, hell Blue, why don't you introduce him a nice gay man? :confused2: It couldn't hurt!

 

[Tim Skog]

As a former GO/OSA person, I recommend that you first get him to agree to tape the meeting for "his and your benefit."

Actually record him on the tape saying he agrees or is aware that the meeting is being taped.

And bring a witness. Let him know that the witness is there to witness only and will not be involved in the discussion.

If he protests and refuses then get up and walk away.

When you leave assume that you will be tailed.

 

[ULRC/S]

I also STRONGLY recommend that you tape the meeting, and listen to it afterwards.

He will be so well drilled that you may well start being moved to his point of view, but if you listen to the tape later you will hear the tricks, and the actual non-answering of your questions.

I say this from personal experience, I was almost talked around in a meeting with some SeaOrg terminals back in the 80's before the days of OSA, but was just smart enough not to sign anything in the first meeting.

When I went over the tapes later, I saw just how skillfully I'd been manipulated. Then in a second meeting, I pointed this out and INSISTED that I get my questions actually answered, which they could/wouldn't do, and they finally dropped the whole BIG FRIENDSHIP game.

Take a good intelligent no BS friend, record, and WATCH YOURSELF!

Regards, Allen

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Anyone in OSA that is willing to meet with you will be well trained in being slippery. The song that comes to mind is by Sade containing this

"No need to ask
He's a smooth operator
Smooth operator, smooth operator
Smooth operator...."

The PR tech is to give you APPARENT answers, not real answers.

You have seen Tommy Davis try it but he ain't worth a shit, he is way to obvious.

Want to see slickness watch Heber Jentzsch here http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=465948140437863388# or just google him.

It will give you a really good idea of how your questions will be sidestepped and acceptable concepts will used to cuddle up to your mind and encourage you not to attack such a lovable, uprighteous person or organization.

Good luck, not always easy going into a den of thieves.

 

[Lulu Belle]

They are also operating on orders from someone else and will not have the authority for any real negotiations.

That is the bottom line.

One of the "LRH datum" things that I actually agree with that's applicable here.

(Paraphrase)

If you are playing a game, play to win. If it's a game you could never win, disconnect from it completely.

(End of paraphrase)

"Negotiating" with a Class V org staff member about COS is like "negotiating" about WalMart's employment and discrimination policies with the old guy who works there who greets you at the door.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

That is the bottom line.

One of the "LRH datum" things that I actually agree with that's applicable here.

(Paraphrase)

If you are playing a game, play to win. If it's a game you could never win, disconnect from it completely.

(End of paraphrase)

"Negotiating" with a Class V org staff member about COS is like "negotiating" about WalMart's employment and discrimination policies with the old guy who works there who greets you at the door.

I don't know if I'd call that an "LRH datum" , I think I'd file that one under "Common Sense"

 

[nozeno]

Hey guys,

So, some folks might remember a couple months back I posted in the Boston thread that I was talking to Paul Bradford about maybe meeting up to talk about the whole "protesting your Org" thing. I didn't hear from him for weeks and weeks, and I figured the whole thing was going nowhere.

Then I got an email from him right after the DC Ideal Org raid. Turns out he'd forgotten to hit "send" the week before. I'm going to be sitting down with him tomorrow (I won't post the specific place or time online, no need for ambitious-but-clueless anons to show up and ruin things by trying to help). I've spoken a lot with the local anons about what they'd like to see discussed: what things they're actively protesting against and what they think might be possible on a local level. I'd love to hear from the folks here what you think should happen too. I obviously can't represent everyone in the world, but I figure if I've got a set of OSA ears available to me I should really share that resource as best I can.

I'd also love some advice from folks who were in. I know the basics: watch my back, assume that he's probably recording even if it is against the law in this state and watch what I say, and don't get my hopes up too much for anything of value to come of this. I figure if there are any ex-OSA sitting on these boards, they might have some more specific advice too.

I'll be posting EXTENSIVE postgame here, on our local boards, and up on WWP. If you don't hear back from me by Monday, you know what to do

You might consider canceling the meeting and doing something more productive, like, your laundry, the dishes and don't forget to vacuum those dust bunnies under your bed that you've been trying to ignore.

 

[degraded being]

If you have any sort of good feeling about it while it is happening, that means FLUNK. YOU FAILED.

Getting you to feel good or even OK about tiny details
is the way to "press your buttons". If they can press your buttons they can get what they want more easily.

They can not negitiate to anything you want. It is against policy. I don't want to be rude here, but do not let your ego tell you that you might just do something good by using your skill, intuition, knowledge, etc.

Do not see this as what you might achieve.
See the whole thing as an observation exercise.
Observe observe observe just watch them and study them in detail.

When you get home with your recording. Make a transcript.
When you see the whole dialogue on paper it is easier to see what was going on.

 

[FoTi]

Write down and carry with you the questions that you want answered. Ask the questions one at a time and don't quit asking one question until you get an answer. When he leads you away from the question, refer to the question being asked and repeat the question again and make him stick to answering that one question before you continue on to the next one. You control the conversation.

 

[tookmeawhile]

I don't see ANY upside to meeting OSA.

Perhaps they will try to get you arrested for being a terrorist threat; the head of anonymous or some crap like that.

No upside - only downside.

Please, don't go - just do something really skanky instead.

 

[Zinjifar]

I don't see ANY upside to meeting OSA.

it's an experience. Done right, you can learn from an experience. Scientology being what it is a deep cynicism is appropriate for any discussions with OSA, but, at the same time there's no reason it can't be a learning experience. Just remember that there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you're told. If the person seems happy; they may be in deep grief. If they say they have a puppy, they're probably allergic. Big lies are mixed with little lies and even with truth and near-truth.

If you're not cynical to start with, you eventually will be.

Zinj

 

[Panda Termint]

Don't leave your fingerprints on ANY blank sheets of paper!