THE BLACK HEART OF DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY;THE BLACK HEART OF L RON HUBBARD

Purple Rain

Crusader
Purple Rain are you more of a reader or video watcher ?
If you read there are many books to choose from that Jon Atack or Arnie Lerma recommend.

If you are a video watcher than people like Dantalion Jones have short videos on mind control and hypnosis that explain simple concepts and give examples from everyday life. His videos are usually very short, like five minutes or so and use simple english to demonstrate basic theories .

Ultimately, to decide for yourself you will have to LOOK at more info than can easily be fit in a post here.

For what it's worth I spent 25 years in scientology and couldn't even dream of starting to recover until I started to realize I and so many others had been hypnotized.

It is the only thing that explains to me past lives (hypnotic hallucinations), exteriorization (dissociative states) and the blind acceptance of outrageous and contradictory doctrine(this is another form of the confusion technique, wherein the confusion ties up your mind , making you MORE suggestible; until you're so confused you can't even PERCIEVE the contradictions as such!):thumbsup:

I am actually after scholarly research papers - I want to know what the evidence base is for hypnotism.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
My ex-boyfriend just showed me this, but it does address a lot of the issues he raises - albeit lightheartedly. We've had another long discussion about this tonight. Anyway...

[video=youtube;_NtQ-VNy614]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NtQ-VNy614[/video]
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I find people like Penn and Teller and George Carlin to be professional naysayers. I think they don't understand spirituality. I mean, they don't (and in the case of Carlin, didn't) like any spiritual idea. They also seem mighty evangelical.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I find people like Penn and Teller and George Carlin to be professional naysayers. I think they don't understand spirituality. I mean, they don't (and in the case of Carlin, didn't) like any spiritual idea. They also seem mighty evangelical.

But they still make some good points. And I would still like to know what kind of evidence base exists for hypnotism. Did you watch it?
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snip< my ex

>snip< My ex-boyfriend

I am actually after scholarly research papers - I want to know what the evidence base is for hypnotism.

Hynosis:
1: a trancelike state that resembles sleep but is induced by a person whose suggestions are readily accepted by the subject .

Medical Definition of HYPNOSIS
1: a trancelike state of altered consciousness that resembles sleep but is induced by a person whose suggestions are readily accepted by the subject.

Look at the repetitive nature of $cientology indoctrination such as T.R.'s and auditing as examples for yourself. Not what I'm saying, Arnie, Jon, the op, your ex or anybody else is saying, just what conclusions you research and arrive at yourself.

One of the little secrets of hypnosis is being convinced you weren't hypnotized.

Think about it.

I wasn't aware that your ex is a valid substitute for those scholarly papers that are on google for the searching. I'm not being snide by any means but really, if you're going to post comedic value t.v. mucking up a good thread while having your ex do your thinking for you then there's not much point in you even bothering with the subject from an elcon cult persuasion indoctrination technique avenue. That's the point of the thread, elcon's tools of deception. If this is heading the way of the Sociopathic thread then I really don't wish to be a target again.

Scientific American: Hypnosis, Memory and the Brain (Full article at link)
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hypnosis-memory-brain/
"Hypnosis has long been considered a valuable technique for recreating and then studying puzzling psychological phenomena. A classic example of this approach uses a technique known as posthypnotic amnesia (PHA) to model memory disorders such as functional amnesia, which involves a sudden memory loss typically due to some sort of psychological trauma (rather than to brain damage or disease). Hypnotists produce PHA by suggesting to a hypnotized person that after hypnosis he will forget particular things until he receives a “cancellation,” such as “Now you can remember everything.” PHA typically only happens when it is specifically suggested and it is much more likely to occur in those with high levels of hypnotic ability, or “high hypnotizable” people. Now a new study shows that this hypnotic state actually influences brain activity associated with memory."
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
I find people like Penn and Teller and George Carlin to be professional naysayers. I think they don't understand spirituality. I mean, they don't (and in the case of Carlin, didn't) like any spiritual idea. They also seem mighty evangelical.

Hey Purple, you might start here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hypnosis

It's my understanding that hypnotism has been established as a genuine phenomenon for at least a hundred years. It is a psychological condition that can be reproduced and empirically studied.

Dianetics as a work of science is preposterous, but as a carefully constructed device designed to enthrall unsuspecting readers it is a work of diabolical genius. Hubbard conceived of writing a book that would instruct people to pair up and take turns hypnotizing one another, carefully concealing from them the fact that they were doing so. And that fucker did it!
 
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Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
But they still make some good points. And I would still like to know what kind of evidence base exists for hypnotism. Did you watch it?

I will watch it this weekend for sure. Got a 3 day weekend and I'm almost (sorta kinda) caught up on my chores and stuff. Less than 24 hours and then comes a buttload of free time...

I'll tell ya how it grabs me after I watch it.

Maybe it'll help me understand hypnotism a bit. I don't think I am strong on that subject.

Ok, it's almost midnight and I guess I better log off for the night.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I wasn't aware that your ex is a valid substitute for those scholarly papers that are on google for the searching. I'm not being snide by any means but really, if you're going to post comedic value t.v. while having your ex do your thinking for you then there's not much point in you even bothering with the subject from an elcon cult persuasion indoctrination technique avenue. If this is heading the way of the Sociopathic thread then I really don't wish to be a target again.

Scientific American: Hypnosis, Memory and the Brain (Full article at link)
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hypnosis-memory-brain/
"Hypnosis has long been considered a valuable technique for recreating and then studying puzzling psychological phenomena. A classic example of this approach uses a technique known as posthypnotic amnesia (PHA) to model memory disorders such as functional amnesia, which involves a sudden memory loss typically due to some sort of psychological trauma (rather than to brain damage or disease). Hypnotists produce PHA by suggesting to a hypnotized person that after hypnosis he will forget particular things until he receives a “cancellation,” such as “Now you can remember everything.” PHA typically only happens when it is specifically suggested and it is much more likely to occur in those with high levels of hypnotic ability, or “high hypnotizable” people. Now a new study shows that this hypnotic state actually influences brain activity associated with memory."

He's not. And why would you assume he's doing his thinking for me, just because I want to know his reasoning for an opinion? If he had been doing my thinking for me then I would not be wondering about it now. The question would have been settled for me years ago. I really do find that quite insulting actually - and just fail to see how it is actually true.

I appreciate the link, though, and look forward to reading it.

Edit: And how have I "targeted" you? I'm the one whose position has been straw-manned.

Edit: Actually, just feeling really hurt. All I was trying to do was understand. I'll get off the thread.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I like the hypnotised theory regarding Scientology, but it leaves me with questions.
Is it true that hypnotism cannot make someone do anything that is strongly against their own moral code or value?

If it is, then there was some "agreement" (that isn't the right word to describe it, I can't find a better one) on a conscious or subconscious level between the hypnotised and the hypnotist.
eg I'm going to stop smoking cigarettes on your suggestion but I am not going to put my cigarettes out on children, on your suggestion.
I'm going to go along with the suggestion that Scientology is the answer to everything, but I am not going to go along with the idea of verbally abusing someone for hours keeping them in a bucket with cold water poured on them.

When does hypnotised become brainwashed? Can it? Is there a difference between the two?
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
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tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
I know that what you are talking about is essential ,but I want to get something the heavily indoctrinated, utterly broken down intellectually, like I was (am ?)
can use. BUT by all means keep the ideas coming . I can use all the help I can get.:thumbsup:

Seems to me you're doing just fine. Paragraphs and everything :thumbsup::eyeroll:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
In method 3 a student finishes reading a page,paragraph or sentence and KNOWS they understood what they read BUT they have "mu phenomena"( which are really mostly renamed symptoms of hypnosis or critical or independent thoughts about what is studied).
The student then knows they must have mus and so CONFUSE their own mind!

This contradiction opens up the door to a dirty trick lrh figured out. If you give a confused person an answer,even if it's wrong they ,can feel relieved as they can now direct their mind off the confusion and onto something else! This is a natural phenomena as people ,often when confused, leave alone whats confusing them and concentrate on something else with no resolution of the confusion, and yet feel better!

Method 3 Wordclearing isn't what you describe. At all. I have written extensively about it on ESMB. I was a sup at Saint Hill and ITO for 10 years, and considered Method 3 the most useful part of Study Tech. Some of Study Tech is good, some irrelevant, and some just plain awful.

I'm not commenting on any other part of your post here, just what I quoted.

Paul
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
This post is going to be long and not for the faint of heart; it'll have some of the dirtiest nastiest secrets in dianetics and scientology and be controversial and screamed against and decried; it WILL break hearts, disillusion and shatter beliefs. I am sorry for any upset or turmoil it causes ,BUT I will do everything I can to be honest and I KNOW how hard this information is to consider and accept.
I went through it when I found out the awful truth myself and it shattered MY beliefs PERMANENTLY.



lrh used hypnosis as the basis for most ,if not all ,the technology in dianetics and scientology. That has been stated before, BUT judging how scientologists talk, think and act, many don't have a clue both what this means and how far spanning it's scope and effects are.


As I've stated elsewhere I've seen scientologists state that scientology is hypnosis smugly ,but still show that they don't have a clue what hypnosis is, and still use hypnotic language patterns induced by dianetics and scientology indoctrination and think with parts of "the tech "that are the tech of hypnotizing people merely repackaged under another name.

Something is not always what we call it ;it's what it functions as, to be blunt hypnosis to work can be called ANYTHING ,as long as you do the steps to hypnotize ,whether you know it or not it can FUNCTION as hypnosis. Cult leaders,doctors,medicine men ,witch doctors etc. have been using this for MILLENIA ! Almost always calling it different names and believing it's magic, or spirits, or divine inspiration or the force of will etc ..

UNDERSTANDING why and how hypnosis works is not needed to use it. I can drive a car and I have no clue how it works. The hypnotist just uses natural phenomena of the mind by performing the right actions; it's like a musician doesn't need to understand the inside of a piano or guitar or synthesizer or sound board to use them, he just needs to play the instrument and somehow people have discovered ,over and over, in culture after culture how to hypnotize, no matter what they called it or how they thought it worked!

I have seen expert exscientologist protesters on TV proclaim scientology is hypnosis! only to have a reporter then say, okay HOW is scientology hypnosis? Then the EXPERT says oh I don't know anything about hypnosis!

If you believe you know what is and isn't hypnosis in dianetics and scientology then please answer the following questions HONESTLY: what are the methods of hypnotic induction ? What are hypnoidal states ? what are conversational and covert hypnosis? what is mimicry? regression ? guided imagery ?
WARNING if you are now ready to go off and study hypnosis I must warn you that tapes and writings on hypnosis often include hypnotic tecnhiques and language patterns THEMSELVES to induce favorable attitudes towards the subject, including beliefs that it can't make you do anything you don't want to, but that's a total lie !
It's a boobytrapped subject! Much like dianetics and scientology! But there is a trick to partially bypass the traps, a method where you only isolate and study small pieces of objective info NOT written by or for hypnotists; Jon Atack's articles on it ,and everything he wrote in scientology mythbusting are excellent and so are Arnie Lerma's at lermanet on hypnosis.

In particular The ones on lrh tapes educational dianetics 1950 and confusion 1952. This is covered very well (and briefly )by dean Fox on rant rave and I concur with his conclusions.
I know that hypnosis in auditing has been exposed by Arnie Lerma and Jon Atack and others ,BUT I believe scientologists are largely ignorant of how it works and what was done to them in auditing and so are still CONFUSED and often hampered in their recovery by this confusion.

In addition and even more to the heart of the matter hypnosis is covertly employed in many other ways in the practice and doctrines of dianetics and scientology. I will touch on just a few to begin to make my point.Many scientologists and exes contend that study tech is innocuous ,or at worst tiresome and boring. Well I contend that it is itself a form of mind control and coercive persuasion so cleverly hidden as to be virtually undetectable.

The first thing to know about mind control is that it can exist and be in a non obvious form. The second is to know that hypnosis (or mind control) works sometimes and not always;that it has different forms and methods and they affect different people to varying degrees ,and some people not at all; they can have a slow cumulative effect becoming stronger very gradually.One method might work on an individual while another doesn't, BUT several together cumulatively may be much more powerful.

This helps hide hypnosis as people who are not hypnotized don' t comply with hypnotic commands and suggestions making it appear that you are CHOOSING to cooperate ,when in fact unknowing hypnotic subjects are "cooperating" with their critical and independent thinking skills shut off ,or down , and regressed to a childlike trusting state. NOT free to choose and evaluate what is happening!

As an example I will contend that method 3 word clearing is itself a hypnotic method! lrh wrote and spoke in many hypnotic patterns as many others have thoroughly covered , BUT the new info I present is that CONFUSION is used to induce (bring on a hypnotic state) in word clearing even without hypnotic materials. Confusion (or paradox) is used to induce hypnosis by confusing a person's mind directing their conscious attention onto what they are confused by, lowering their ability to percieve what they hear and read critically and independently, just intaking it without evaluation.

In method 3 a student finishes reading a page,paragraph or sentence and KNOWS they understood what they read BUT they have "mu phenomena"( which are really mostly renamed symptoms of hypnosis or critical or independent thoughts about what is studied).
The student then knows they must have mus and so CONFUSE their own mind!

This contradiction opens up the door to a dirty trick lrh figured out. If you give a confused person an answer,even if it's wrong they ,can feel relieved as they can now direct their mind off the confusion and onto something else! This is a natural phenomena as people ,often when confused, leave alone whats confusing them and concentrate on something else with no resolution of the confusion, and yet feel better!

This masks that "study" in scientology ( and anywhere else study tech is used) is actually a kind of self hypnosis where the student puts themself into a progressive ,deepening light semipermanent trance that greatly deepens when returning to course or study, or even evetually when reading ANYTHING as how the person thinks about reading and language can change.

Their own mind can RUN the study tech on themself ESPECIALLY if this is flanked and bolstered by the loaded language in dianetics and scientology; in and of itself designed to produce the same effect with another variation of a hypnotic technique.

I know this sounds outrageous and many will reflexively say "NO I got gains from study tech ! "There really are words to learn! Yes there are words to learn, BUT MUs as lrh defined them DON't exist and are just a clever misdirection ,with the tiniest sliver of truth perverted to deceive, to hide the hypnotic regressed state he wanted you to "intake '' scientology and dianetics.

I also contend that the demoing is used to regress your mind ,increasing vulnerability and the idea of handling gradients similarly is a hypnotic technique used to misdirect you! He tells you your confusion is with something prior ,making you go on witch hunt for a red herring ,and feeling "relieved" when you find an "answer"!

Please have the courage to look at both sides of this theory and learn about hypnosis and what lrh said about it PARTICULARLY in the references Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma site.

I'm truly sorry for any upsets and grief this info causes, I'm only telling you because my conscience demands it. Best of luck with this.
Thank you

Certainly I was very confused with study teck. Most often I would spend a few days clearing long chains of words only to find I really didn't understand the sentence, because words alone don't make understanding. FED UP is a concept that has nothing to do with the verb to feed or the direction above. So I do certainly agree that I spent a lot of time lifting dictionaries and getting extremely confused. I'm not sure if then in that confused state it's easy to accept information to stop the walls from spinning, but I suspect you are right there. What I have observed is that once you accept something as true it gets very hard to shake it off. Certainly you get to concentrate on punctuation and grammar and obscure uses of a word instead of actually looking objectively at the message.

In dianetics he talked about auditing being done in a state of reverie. Perhaps that's the point of those boring rote commands.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Well, I have read it now and fortunately I did not get gains from the study tech, so I am okay with your post!

:)

I'm really not sure what to believe about hypnosis, because my ex doesn't believe in it, but Arnie and Jon do, and I respect all those people. I've asked before what is the evidence for hypnosis because I've googled it wanting to find out and I still don't know if there's proof for it or not. I know that sounds stupid, but talk about confusion! I am confused about the existence of hypnosis!

Anyway, nobody has ever answered me.

He's not. And why would you assume he's doing his thinking for me, just because I want to know his reasoning for an opinion? If he had been doing my thinking for me then I would not be wondering about it now. The question would have been settled for me years ago. I really do find that quite insulting actually - and just fail to see how it is actually true.

I appreciate the link, though, and look forward to reading it.

Edit: And how have I "targeted" you? I'm the one whose position has been straw-manned.

Edit: Actually, just feeling really hurt. All I was trying to do was understand. I'll get off the thread.

Purple, it takes guts to admit you don't know anything about subject. Hell, there's many I have no knowledge of so it's not a singular club ... lol. I in no way claim to be an expert on any subject and with that said I have been studying elcon's cultist tactics as onion peeling for some time and from reading Arnie's site and other comparative info., hypnosis is a part of elcon's con. The Sociopath thread discussion (with a similar psychological vein) became something of a train wreck and I don't care for a repeat which is why I brought it up. As to my other comment, see the above underlined bold emphasized quote.

I like the hypnotised theory regarding Scientology, but it leaves me with questions.
Is it true that hypnotism cannot make someone do anything that is strongly against their own moral code or value?

If it is, then there was some "agreement" (that isn't the right word to describe it, I can't find a better one) on a conscious or subconscious level between the hypnotised and the hypnotist.
eg I'm going to stop smoking cigarettes on your suggestion but I am not going to put my cigarettes out on children, on your suggestion.
I'm going to go along with the suggestion that Scientology is the answer to everything, but I am not going to go along with the idea of verbally abusing someone for hours keeping them in a bucket with cold water poured on them.

When does hypnotised become brainwashed? Can it? Is there a difference between the two?

I don't believe that hypnosis is the entire cultist package, it's only one part of it. How to take someone from everyday life and remake them over into a fanatical true believer is layered just like the exit onion is. Greywolf had an excellent World Cult Watch program that touched on hypnosis that summed it up as this: Reality + Suggestion + Subconscious = Hypnosis.

Here's list of what I've compiled from my $cio experiences and from various Ex's posts relating their researches and description of their cult past.

Abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse
Bait-and-Switch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
Betrayal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal
Cognitive Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
Cognitive Dissonance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Cognitive Distortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion
Deception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception
Denial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
Disinformation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation
Dissociation (psychology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)
Double Bind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind
Double Standard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
Emotional Blackmail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmail
Emotional Detachment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment
False Dilemma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Gaslighting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
Groupthink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Hypnosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis
Identity (social science)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science)
Indoctrination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination
Loaded Language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_language
Locus Of Control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control
Love Bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
Magical Thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking
Milieu Control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_control
Narcissism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic
Operant Conditioning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning
Peer Pressure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_pressure
Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
Psychological Abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse
Psychological Manipulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation
Self-Deception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception
Self-Serving Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
Shunning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning
Social Isolation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation
Stockholm Syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Wishful Thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking
 
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Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Certainly I was very confused with study teck. Most often I would spend a few days clearing long chains of words only to find I really didn't understand the sentence, because words alone don't make understanding.

Long chains of word-clearing are a good way to practice the trick that I have called 'topological lying'. It's where you gradually switch the meanings of your terms, without changing the terms themselves or admitting that you're making a switch in meaning, in such a way that your entire exposition amounts to an utter falsehood, and yet there is no single point that anyone can pin down as an explicit lie.

A simple example would be to say, "Scientology 'tech' is workable", where by "workable" you mean, "it is in principle possible to get it to work, for some value of 'work', at least for some people, sometimes". So okay, with such a weak and vague definition of 'workable', Scientology 'tech' probably is 'workable'. But then you ramble on for a few sentences, repeating the term 'workable', until you work your way over to some context in which 'workable' means something a lot stronger and better — something more like, "reliably does the awesomely useful thing that it is supposed to do — like lighting a candle or driving a car". So once you've shifted over the meaning of 'workable' into this, you start emphasizing how awesome it is to have a "workable technology of the mind". Ta-da! A topological lie.

A topological lie is a completely bogus argument, but the trick is precisely not in saying any one sentence that is simply false, or in misusing any individual word. To tell people to look up each word, and never pass any sentence that is not understood, but then go on with confidence as soon as they are sure they do understand each sentence ... this is like the magician saying, "Nothing up my sleeve." He's getting you to look at his sleeve cuff, while his foot pushes the rabbit into the hat. Hubbard is getting you to look at his individual words, because his lie is in how he bends them together.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
This post is going to be long and not for the faint of heart; it'll have some of the dirtiest nastiest secrets in dianetics and scientology and be controversial and screamed against and decried; it WILL break hearts, disillusion and shatter beliefs. I am sorry for any upset or turmoil it causes ,BUT I will do everything I can to be honest and I KNOW how hard this information is to consider and accept.
I went through it when I found out the awful truth myself and it shattered MY beliefs PERMANENTLY.



lrh used hypnosis as the basis for most ,if not all ,the technology in dianetics and scientology. That has been stated before, BUT judging how scientologists talk, think and act, many don't have a clue both what this means and how far spanning it's scope and effects are.


As I've stated elsewhere I've seen scientologists state that scientology is hypnosis smugly ,but still show that they don't have a clue what hypnosis is, and still use hypnotic language patterns induced by dianetics and scientology indoctrination and think with parts of "the tech "that are the tech of hypnotizing people merely repackaged under another name.

Something is not always what we call it ;it's what it functions as, to be blunt hypnosis to work can be called ANYTHING ,as long as you do the steps to hypnotize ,whether you know it or not it can FUNCTION as hypnosis. Cult leaders,doctors,medicine men ,witch doctors etc. have been using this for MILLENIA ! Almost always calling it different names and believing it's magic, or spirits, or divine inspiration or the force of will etc ..

UNDERSTANDING why and how hypnosis works is not needed to use it. I can drive a car and I have no clue how it works. The hypnotist just uses natural phenomena of the mind by performing the right actions; it's like a musician doesn't need to understand the inside of a piano or guitar or synthesizer or sound board to use them, he just needs to play the instrument and somehow people have discovered ,over and over, in culture after culture how to hypnotize, no matter what they called it or how they thought it worked!

I have seen expert exscientologist protesters on TV proclaim scientology is hypnosis! only to have a reporter then say, okay HOW is scientology hypnosis? Then the EXPERT says oh I don't know anything about hypnosis!

If you believe you know what is and isn't hypnosis in dianetics and scientology then please answer the following questions HONESTLY: what are the methods of hypnotic induction ? What are hypnoidal states ? what are conversational and covert hypnosis? what is mimicry? regression ? guided imagery ?
WARNING if you are now ready to go off and study hypnosis I must warn you that tapes and writings on hypnosis often include hypnotic tecnhiques and language patterns THEMSELVES to induce favorable attitudes towards the subject, including beliefs that it can't make you do anything you don't want to, but that's a total lie !
It's a boobytrapped subject! Much like dianetics and scientology! But there is a trick to partially bypass the traps, a method where you only isolate and study small pieces of objective info NOT written by or for hypnotists; Jon Atack's articles on it ,and everything he wrote in scientology mythbusting are excellent and so are Arnie Lerma's at lermanet on hypnosis.

In particular The ones on lrh tapes educational dianetics 1950 and confusion 1952. This is covered very well (and briefly )by dean Fox on rant rave and I concur with his conclusions.
I know that hypnosis in auditing has been exposed by Arnie Lerma and Jon Atack and others ,BUT I believe scientologists are largely ignorant of how it works and what was done to them in auditing and so are still CONFUSED and often hampered in their recovery by this confusion.

In addition and even more to the heart of the matter hypnosis is covertly employed in many other ways in the practice and doctrines of dianetics and scientology. I will touch on just a few to begin to make my point.Many scientologists and exes contend that study tech is innocuous ,or at worst tiresome and boring. Well I contend that it is itself a form of mind control and coercive persuasion so cleverly hidden as to be virtually undetectable.

The first thing to know about mind control is that it can exist and be in a non obvious form. The second is to know that hypnosis (or mind control) works sometimes and not always;that it has different forms and methods and they affect different people to varying degrees ,and some people not at all; they can have a slow cumulative effect becoming stronger very gradually.One method might work on an individual while another doesn't, BUT several together cumulatively may be much more powerful.

This helps hide hypnosis as people who are not hypnotized don' t comply with hypnotic commands and suggestions making it appear that you are CHOOSING to cooperate ,when in fact unknowing hypnotic subjects are "cooperating" with their critical and independent thinking skills shut off ,or down , and regressed to a childlike trusting state. NOT free to choose and evaluate what is happening!

As an example I will contend that method 3 word clearing is itself a hypnotic method! lrh wrote and spoke in many hypnotic patterns as many others have thoroughly covered , BUT the new info I present is that CONFUSION is used to induce (bring on a hypnotic state) in word clearing even without hypnotic materials. Confusion (or paradox) is used to induce hypnosis by confusing a person's mind directing their conscious attention onto what they are confused by, lowering their ability to percieve what they hear and read critically and independently, just intaking it without evaluation.

In method 3 a student finishes reading a page,paragraph or sentence and KNOWS they understood what they read BUT they have "mu phenomena"( which are really mostly renamed symptoms of hypnosis or critical or independent thoughts about what is studied).
The student then knows they must have mus and so CONFUSE their own mind!

This contradiction opens up the door to a dirty trick lrh figured out. If you give a confused person an answer,even if it's wrong they ,can feel relieved as they can now direct their mind off the confusion and onto something else! This is a natural phenomena as people ,often when confused, leave alone whats confusing them and concentrate on something else with no resolution of the confusion, and yet feel better!

This masks that "study" in scientology ( and anywhere else study tech is used) is actually a kind of self hypnosis where the student puts themself into a progressive ,deepening light semipermanent trance that greatly deepens when returning to course or study, or even evetually when reading ANYTHING as how the person thinks about reading and language can change.

Their own mind can RUN the study tech on themself ESPECIALLY if this is flanked and bolstered by the loaded language in dianetics and scientology; in and of itself designed to produce the same effect with another variation of a hypnotic technique.

I know this sounds outrageous and many will reflexively say "NO I got gains from study tech ! "There really are words to learn! Yes there are words to learn, BUT MUs as lrh defined them DON't exist and are just a clever misdirection ,with the tiniest sliver of truth perverted to deceive, to hide the hypnotic regressed state he wanted you to "intake '' scientology and dianetics.

I also contend that the demoing is used to regress your mind ,increasing vulnerability and the idea of handling gradients similarly is a hypnotic technique used to misdirect you! He tells you your confusion is with something prior ,making you go on witch hunt for a red herring ,and feeling "relieved" when you find an "answer"!

Please have the courage to look at both sides of this theory and learn about hypnosis and what lrh said about it PARTICULARLY in the references Jon Atack and Arnie Lerma site.

I'm truly sorry for any upsets and grief this info causes, I'm only telling you because my conscience demands it. Best of luck with this.
Thank you

MB - I rarely (almost never!) respond without reading the entire thread first. But I just have to say...


OMG!!! Thank you.

You have no idea how much this helps to make sense of the total contradictions I experience living with an otherwise incredibly intelligent and discerning scn who completely loses all cognitive ability when it comes to the subject of hubbard and his faux religion. And who has completely baffling, at least to me, patterns of confusion in discussions that should be straightforward. S/he introduces confusion into very linear conversations. It's hard to explain, but I bet you would recognize it immediately.

Suggestions for how to interrupt those patterns?

Blanky (going back to read the rest of the thread now.... )
 
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