ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Scientology clergy force a mother to choose: son or daughter

Discussion in 'Fair Game and Disconnection Victims' started by Free to shine, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. betskand

    betskand Patron with Honors

    I really wish this video or the verbal transcription of it would accompany EVERY mention of the Goldberg story in the media. The one piece of info that is not stressed enough in this story is "Not only do they do it, BUT THEY LIED ABOUT IT ON CNN."

    ADDITION BY EDIT: And they continue to lie. I just read the stupid response of CO$, that disconnection is "voluntary." One step up from Tommy Dee's outrageous lie in the above video, in which he claims that the policy simply doesn't exist, that it would violate CO$' pro-family position. But still.

    I guess I'm saying that the LIES are news too, and I wish that bit of news were included in all stories about disconnection. Anonkat reminded us of that by running the video, as though to say: this is not complete without the fact of the disclaimers.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The last letter is especially damning, as she openly and explicitly tells you that you are forbidden to communicate with Scientologists.

    If there's another lawsuit where church reps deny the existence of disconnection as a practice, the collection of letters from various persons will serve as evidence of perjury on their part.
  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Here are larger copies (easier to view). I am sure MANY people have saved such letters from IJC and from their family members.



  4. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Miss Ellie

    I would not wait for a reporter to come knocking... I would offer in case the writer at the Tampa Bay paper wants to do a follow up.

    Are your children in or out? Either way are you back in touch with them? I hope so. They come from good stock & need to realize how hard that was for you.

    I wonder how much it would cost to put up billboards with photos of "disconnected" family members up & down the main roads into/out of Clearwater & around flag. After all it would be "free speech". Photos with "victims of Scientology disconnection policy" "please call home... we love you!"

    If I win the lottery I will pay for a year worth!
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I have thought the same thing! If I ever won the lottery I would put up billboards in all or most major cities, where there is any Scientology presence, with things such as actual disconnection letters from IJC and family members. :thumbsup:
  6. Wants2Talk

    Wants2Talk Silver Meritorious Patron

    I awoke this morning imagining a Disconnection Museum - like the Holocaust Museum.
  7. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Wow, that second one must have been tough to read. Surprisingly it isn't all wrinkled but that probably didn't come to mind when you read it. It's hard to get angry when you have been shot like that. Sorry man.

  8. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Oh Gaddy..that is heartbreaking :touched:
  9. betskand

    betskand Patron with Honors

    Yes, exactly! I think these lies should come to be a big part of the legal problems and the "PR" problems CO$ has. It is an ADDITIONAL crime to the original crimes of forcing people to disconnect, letting people die, and so on.

    The word "perjury" should be much more widely used.
  10. betskand

    betskand Patron with Honors

    Oh, awful.

    I really hope people have saved these letters. Every time CO$ gives out another lie claiming that disconnection is voluntary or that it doesn't occur at all (as in Tommy Dee's stupid CNN interview), it would be lovely if the normal media accompanied the story of the disconnection with a SECOND story about the LIES, including some documentation.
  11. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    ::::::::News Update::::::

    Good Morning America filmed Sara Goldberg and Nick all morning.

    Brace for Impact ........4 million viewers will learn of Church thuggery and Disconnection enforcement on SUPPRESSIVE PERSON DECLARE
    tomorrow morning.

    Good Morning America is ABC TV networked throughout continental USA
    ... ooooh la la:eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:
  12. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Add suicides, early deaths, bankruptcies, foreclosures, cancer and shattered beings to the museum. It would make the "Industry of Death" exhibit that no one sees (because they can't find buildings in Ideal Org Cities that will rent to the cult) look like a kids game!
  13. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    From 3 days ago --

  14. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Looks like SP times know about censorship and self censorship of the scilons so have put the biggest possible picture of the well known scilion-now-ex right on top front WHERE THEY CANNOT POSSIBLY NOT SEE IT,
    How effing cool is that?? :clap::clap::clap:
  15. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tampa Bay Times shush and be quiet.
    There is no such thing as Disconnection !
  16. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Miss Ellie

    The interview taped for GMA should be on line about 2 minutes after it airs live.... I will be waiting with bells on! Have to work so will snag off the web.

    This is going to be so good.... of course the sciobots will not allow any TVs on during that time, children will be told to avert their eyes from all the news stands & no one will be allowed to use the internet.

    AND these folks are all about communication?!?

    Of course they are!

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  17. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    This makes me wonder if the New Zealand inquiry has historical records of disconnection dox available.

    (ii) New Zealand

    24. On 28th June 1968, a Petition was presented to the New Zealand Parliament signed by 716 persons and asking for an Enquiry into Scientology. Parliament referred it to the Select Committee on Social Services; after hearing a substantial volume of evidence this Committee reported to the House on 7th November 1968 recommending the appointment of an Enquiry as prayed. The House having agreed to the Committee's recommendations, there was set up by Order in Council dated 3rd February 1969 a Commission of Enquiry into Scientology, with terms of reference limited to

    "The working of existing law and the necessity or expedience of any legislation in respect of the activities, methods, and practices of the Hubbard Scientology Organisation in New Zealand or any associated Scientology organisations or bodies in New Zealand in so far as those activities, methods and practices may -
    (a) Cause or contribute to estrangements in family relationships;

    (23) Report to M.P.s, p. 10
    (b) Affect the custody or control of children and persons under the age of 21 years;
    (c) Result in persons who have severed their connection with Scientology or any Scientology organisation or body, or any other persons, being subjected to improper or unreasonable pressures of any kind by Scientologists or any Scientology organisation or body".

    25. The terms of reference specifically excluded "any Enquiry into the philosophy, teachings or beliefs of Scientology or Scientologists" except to the extent necessary to facilitate the Enquiry into the matters specified.
    26. The members of the Commission were Sir Guy Richardson Powles, KBE, CMG, the New Zealand Ombudsman, and Mr. E. V. Dumbleton. They sat for 8 days and (assisted by Counsel) heard 27 witnesses, the transcript of whose evidence occupied 650 pages. 191 documents were put in. The Report was dated 30th June 1969. and the following quotations will suffice here to give its gist: -

    "From the discussion of the evidence it will be seen that the Commission has concluded that there was clear proof of the activities, methods, and practices of Scientology in New Zealand contributing to estrangements in family relationships." (23)
    "It seems clear that at some stage in the course of its operations in New Zealand Scientology did actively contemplate interfering with familial relations in such a way as to induce trainee Scientologists to disconnect from close relatives who were considered by Scientology to be acting in the role of suppressive persons." (24)

    "It appeared to the Commission that the attitude of Scientology towards family relationships was cold, distant, and somewhat uninterested. In a number of cases of which the Commission was informed it must have been apparent to the Scientology organisation, or at least to some of the officers concerned, that family relationships were being subjected to a strain and could possibly be damaged by a continuation of a course in Scientology. There is no evidence in any of these cases that Scientology or any of its officers took any steps to remedy or alleviate this situation." (25)

    "The Commission was informed that the practice of disconnection was cancelled by directive of 15th November 1968, and the Commission received a letter from L. Ron Hubbard stating that the Board of Directors of the Church of Scientology had no intention of reintroducing the policy. He also added that, for his part, he could see no reason why the policy should ever be reintroduced ....

    I have not had time to dig back into the 1950's but I am sure there are similar 'declarations' and attacks on the family.
  18. Wants2Talk

    Wants2Talk Silver Meritorious Patron

    We are learning. We will prevail. Cake will be ours!

  19. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I'm not sure if this has been posted.

  20. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    So that's why they're staying off the streets and walking through tunnels.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014